Why do people want trash?

[Nestama]

EXAMPLE: the Atomos in Labyrinth of the Ancients (and a lesser extent the World of Darkness)

Vassago is a better example, in my opinion.

[DragonSlayer45]

Here's the reason: Its because the current "raids" don't feel like we are raiding anything. We have this big colossus called Alexander, and Savage squanders the opportunity for more exploration and just flat out drops you off in front of the boss arena. In the case of Savage Fist of the Father, Faust then the actual boss. No trash, no exploration, nothing.

Its a glorified trial masquerading as a raid.

[ChocoFeru]

There's people too used to WoW's raid system, wich has lots of trash mobs and trash-easy bosses to amplify the time-consuming content so the user gets a placebo feeling that it's a lot of content.
The reality is that the raids had 2 or 3 real bosses with real mechanics.

SE just saved us the time to repeat this nonsense every week and get directly to the point. We have to clear some trash sometimes, like before A2 and stuff, but it doesn't really take too much time.

[Yukiko]

Currently its like "Tomp Raider" (the first game).
We are in, one Boss and then try, after try untill everything runs PERFECT... Hell, even sometimes we need luck with RNG or it will crush us!

What players are asking is to have Trash like Zelda style with riddles and mechanics (sunken tempel was going in a good direction but had too much hack&slay) and Bossfights with recovery! Bossfights where everything have to be perfect are not fun, you just go in and try again again again untill it works, thats not a boss for many of the players, thats a trial...
Edit: In Zelda and even some Final Fantasy games, trash was optional if you moved carefully! You know: In FFXIV we can walk and run, but SE never made Traps that used that "skill". In 1.x we could avoid some trash when walking and it was fun.

If you just go in and Hack&Shlash your way through masses of trash 45 minutes for "one" Dungeon is too much (Thats what makes dzemael so boring) -> shorten the way -> we now have only one Bossfight
At least, some Variations please, different paths as example in Coil where we could give the Boss skills we liked him to have

[Airget]

With Savage content removing the trash mobs is smart because think of it like this. You want to beat the boss but you have to go through the filler every-time just to get to it, you already proved you could beat that part in normal mode so it is a bit redundant to put "trash" in savage mode when it doesn't add to the difficulty it only serves to waste the players time.

I mean there are ways "trash" could work if they related to the boss in some way, could be things like 3 paths, can take all 3 but you have to split your party of 8 in a certain way which means could have a tank/healer together, and then tank and healer in other groups, or you could go 4/4 and skip one path and based on how well you manage against each path you went through it alters the boss in some way. So say at the start even with 8 it's hard to take out one path, with strategy you could do 4/4 but chaos to try and do 2/3/3, But the idea could be it's not about defeating all the targets but weakning each path in a way that helps you fight against the boss. I'd say trash mobs designed in that manner could work but it's not a gimmick I"d put into every fight.

Something like, let's say in Alexander the boss fight is based on goblins remaining in the 3 paths and each path correlates to a certain aspect of the boss, when the boss appears the goblins goes into position and you fight based on how many gobs were left with each remaining gob offering a gimmick to make the fight that much harder. That would be trash with purpose because it be a two step fight in the sense of learning which paths are the most threatening that you should take down and which ones aren't as urgent to take down before the boss is summoned.

[Warlyx]

if raids were bigger , look at how Void Ark looks in the trailer....is awesome , and the dungeon looks huge , trash is boring yeah , but spawning in front of the boss is a bit lame.

Give trash a purpouse , in other games trash show some boss mechanics so u learn before arriving at the boss lair (plus trash can drop, some gil ~~, mats , if killed fast enough spawns a chest with food / potions? )

[Eye_Gore]

Its not the destination, its the adventure getting there. One mans trash is another mans gold. Some time when the crew is up against it, and the breaks are beating the boys, tell them to get out there and give it all they got and win just one for the Zipper. I don't know where I'll be then, Doc", "but I won't smell too good, that's for sure"

[CorbinDallas]

An idea I've had is to have all 4 sections merged into one dungeon, similar to how Crystal Tower works.

Imagine it, you enter the FotF, get past Faust and the Oppressor, and instead of leaving the area outright, you carry on and zone through where the boss came through into the Cuff. Etc etc.

Obviously it doesn't solve the no trash in savage problem, but I think it would work ok for normal mode at least. It would give the feeling of actually progressing through the innards of Alexander up to the Manipulator. Could even add a few extra bits, like a T4/ARF elevator experience pre-Manipulator.

*shrug* just a thought

[Eidolon]

No one actually wants trash.

People just think it'll make it more "Raid like", when in reality all it will do is make a majority of us roll our eyes in boredome.

[dejavutwo]

I would like it as long as once you clear it for the week, it stays cleared.