Thread: Idea for 4.0 Tank Class

Originally Posted by Alahra

RDM has traditionally been the fencer class, so they'll probably use fencing swords (like epees and rapiers).

Duel wielding wouldn't actually be all that strange.

Historically, fencing often employed duel wielding. The high-handed posture assumed by fencers (in which their non-dominant hand is held behind them and above their head) came from holding either a lantern (for night fighting) or a dagger/buckler (for executing parry's). Things changed a lot when it became a sport.

wow I think I totally forgot about one vital tank part. stances. umm... hmm... oh oh!!! umbral and astral (aka black mage and white mage) where depending on your stance certain combo attacks would change. I keep thinking about as we get into higher levels I do NOT want to see more and more skills on older classes. I would like to see skills change as we level. so at level 60 you get royal authority but say at level 80 it would change to something else earned at level 76 quest. So with this in mind the third combo attack for a red mage tank in umbra would be a fire/lit/aero/ice hand strike, however if they were to be in astral stance they could heal, blind, or throw up a lesser stoneskin (along with doing the static damage). Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Typhoria

Viking anyone? Hammer user that gave a blunt debuff, so it would benefit monks.

Originally Posted by AlexiIvaniskavich

A hammer or mace class would make a lot of sense and it would bring in a new weapon type presently not existent in the game.

I guess it could open them up to do more bootshine if the raid didn't need int down. It would have to be like drk where it wouldn't overwrite dragon kick, tho.

I was looking at the old classes and I always really liked the "mystic knight" type that could power up their sword skills with magic. Since we already have swords, this weapon might be a viable way to also introduce it as a sort of magic-enhancing mace/hammer wielder. I guess dark knight is close in this regard given dark arts usage, but they could differentiate them such as like "Flame Hammer" could be a buff that increases damage by inflicting "burn" status on target after completing an aggro/dps combo, "Frost Hammer" could apply a damage down type debuff, poison mace for an extra dot, lightning mace for a guaranteed critical hit, etc, etc. There is a lot of flexibility I think and to me at least something like that would be fun/different. IDK, maybe it would seem too much like drk for others, it would have to be a lil like drk for the mp-sustain but I think if the effects are different and versatile and useful enough it could be fun.

Originally Posted by Alahra

Minus the dual wielding, this is the basic way I assume they'll be doing RDM. The tank role, as codified, is the easiest way to cover all of the RDM's normal kit, which includes 1) melee, 2) white/defensive magic (which takes the form of defensive cooldowns with spell names like Phalanx, drawn from FFXI and healing cooldowns and/or spells, not unlike Clemency), and 3) black/offensive magic.

While DPS or healer could work in theory for RDM, DPS loses some of the "hybrid" feel, and healer would end up strange in melee. (While other games have had melee healers, FFXIV has a history of mechanics that only target healers, requiring them to separate from the rest of the group, so a melee healer would either mean that healer was undesirable for fights with those sorts of mechanics or they could no longer include such mechanics, which would limit raid design).

Edit: To expand and counterpoint myself a little, the only reason they might not go tank is more of an aesthetic one. While RDM has usually worn "light" melee armor, including chainmail, they usually haven't worn the really heavy stuff (like the Wolfram tank set or the Noct set, for example). Most tank gear in the game isn't all that heavy anymore and wouldn't be a huge thematic stretch for RDM, but if they ever move back to an art style with larger pieces of tank gear being common, that might steer them away from making RDM a tank class (unless they did something weird with their gearing, anyway).

They don't need to explicitly make a melee healer. They could just make a melee damage stance for a RDM healer:

Heals are powered via MND by default. They use cleric stance to power moderate damage ranged magic that can be cast from a safe distance, but require MP. AoE damage would be done through their caster stance. They use a new melee version of cleric stance that swaps MND/STR to empower stronger, single target, melee attacks that use AP. May also grant a damage reduction of some sort. This doesn't conflict with their MP usage for heals, but requires melee range and all of the usual dangers and inconveniences that come with it. Now you've got your hybrid RDM that still fits properly into the healer role that's been established. All 3 separate stances have a purpose, Heal stance = heals, caster stance = AoE + safe ranged damage, melee stance = single target + better defenses.

The problem with Tank/DPS RDM is that the white magic is going to have to be weak and/or forced, like it currently is for all tanks and casters that have some white magic at their disposal. The healer roles are already set up to do some decent damage. This allows a RDM healer to be able to perform all 3 classic RDM roles well enough to feel like a good fit.