MCH..The dying breed?

[Alahra]

But outside of not having WM/GB, I still feel the two jobs are still extremely similar to each other is what I'm getting at. Not that it's a problem because end game isn't at level 50.

Honestly, the two jobs feel better differentiated to me at 50 than they do at 60, at least in terms of like, how my fingers move about my keybinds. That's a really hard thing to quantify, but to me at least, MCH's combo+proc system feels a lot different from Heavy Shot+Bloodletter procs. They're still fairly similar, of course (but so are DRK and PLD/WAR, so they aren't alone there). It's just that GB/WM then go and make them *more* similar, which was a really poor design decision, especially, as you note, because this was an expansion.

They're also so similar in terms of what they do for the party that one or the other is always going to be preferred for content because it's more effective. The only notable difference is the Physical Resistance debuff that MCH has, but it's not good enough that you would for some reason have another physical DPS instead of a caster in your DPS loadout. It also doesn't help that Foe Requiem is just easier to apply (and works better in situations with multiple targets that you can't group up) than the Magic Resistance debuff from Hypercharged Bishop.

They probably should have diversified their utility more, too. Personally, I've been pondering the idea of MCH providing the Piercing debuff, so that they don't necessitate a DRG, which would possibly make them a bit different from BRD in terms of favored party compositions.

[Velhart]

They probably should have diversified their utility more, too. Personally, I've been pondering the idea of MCH providing the Piercing debuff, so that they don't necessitate a DRG, which would possibly make them a bit different from BRD in terms of favored party compositions.

That would give MCH an extreme advantage over BRD in every situation, not just raiding. You would have to give BRD a piercing debuff also to balance it.

[RiceisNice]

That would give MCH an extreme advantage over BRD in every situation, not just raiding. You would have to give BRD a piercing debuff also to balance it.

Not unless their damage was balanced around it, as much as drg and mnk are.
And if they did that, hyper charge on average still wouldn't be comparable to the boost from foe.

[Velhart]

Not unless their damage was balanced around it, as much as drg and mnk are.
And if they did that, hyper charge on average still wouldn't be comparable to the boost from foe.

Then the blunt/slash/piercing debuff should be removed entirely and just base potency around what it would be with it on. On all jobs, not just ranged DPS. Imagine MCH getting that move, then you have BRD that is balanced to compete with MCH that utilizes the debuff, now getting an advantage of higher DPS. Unless someone gives me a good reason why the debuffs have to stay, they seem more like a crutch than a utility.

[Alahra]

Unless someone gives me a good reason why the debuffs have to stay, they seem more like a crutch than a utility.

Their main purpose is to promote class synergies. The only one that, at present, is largely superfluous is Dragon Kick/Blunt Resist, since none of the other DPS jobs are Blunt damage (I think Ifrit is still Blunt, but that's small potatoes). That one isn't really utility and given that Dragon Kick already has another thing tied to it, it doesn't really serve a purpose right now. That would change if we got another Blunt job, though.

[Velhart]

Their main purpose is to promote class synergies. The only one that, at present, is largely superfluous is Dragon Kick/Blunt Resist, since none of the other DPS jobs are Blunt damage (I think Ifrit is still Blunt, but that's small potatoes). That one isn't really utility and given that Dragon Kick already has another thing tied to it, it doesn't really serve a purpose right now. That would change if we got another Blunt job, though.

Yes, but a lot of jobs offer utility beyond just those debuffs. DRG offers crit buffs, NIN offers Trick Attack, and so on. They offer the synergy with those abilities alone.

[RiceisNice]

Yes, but a lot of jobs offer utility beyond just those debuffs. DRG offers crit buffs, NIN offers Trick Attack, and so on. They offer the synergy with those abilities alone.

It's supposed to encourage synergy like having a bard to boost caster, dragoon to boost bard. Another way they could have gone about it was making MCH blunt (which isn't that far off, esp when you look at things like gauss round) so mnk isn't being selfish anymore.

Battle linanity and trick attack doesn't encourage synergy of classes since it boosts everyone and everything.
There's a couple more, but with the current set up of party metas that it becomes both a given and nessecity, can't clarify right now on a phone though.

Egis are also entirely magical now, down to even their auto attacks.

[Alahra]

That would give MCH an extreme advantage over BRD in every situation, not just raiding. You would have to give BRD a piercing debuff also to balance it.

Not necessarily. WAR has the slashing debuff while PLD and DRK don't. Since you can get the slashing debuff from another source, WAR doesn't necessarily have an advantage over PLD and DRK (most of WAR's current advantages come from a better DPS skill kit and would still be there even if they didn't have the debuff themselves).

Since DRG still provides the Piercing debuff, it's not as though you could never use BRD again. It would just favor certain compositions, much the way NIN and WAR have synergy with one another right now.

And honestly, BRD would still be pretty attractive, as it provides slightly higher DPS, Foe Requiem, and support that's easier to use.