MCH..The dying breed?

[Velhart]

Anyone have a decent glamour for MCH? I tried a Mustadio look, but there's no closed shirt body pieces...best was like a hemp tunic died yellow, and a pair of blue dyed kecks.

lv.60 chest piece from Nevereap and Fractal. any large brown gloves. If you have veteran rewards, Cloud pants dyed blue and Cloud shoes dyed brown.

[RiceisNice]

Back home now, so I can look at each of the debuffs and why some of them work for the intention of synergy, and how some do not.

Slashing
This is only given by warriors and ninjas, and utilized by all tanks and ninjas. Disregard the fact that warrior is the off-tank to have (thus the application of slashing resistance is always there), it still has some synergy with ninja, because it allows the latter to exclude dancing edge from their rotation (which is less potency than AE)


Blunt
Is only given by monk and utilized by monk. They could have either given MCH blunt attacks, or even hybrid attacks (certain attacks like blank, gauss round, head graze, turrets, etc deal blunt damage, while other applicable skills like heartbreaker deal piercing, basically to match the animation/effects of said skills becuase not all of them appear piercing, not even clean shot) and MCH gets a skill that has the same debuff as dragon kick, either gauss round or another skill that requires ammounition or something. What this does is allow MCH to buff part of their dps (and not all of it), while giving MNKs the same synergy with MCH that exists with WAR:NIN, it allows them to opt out of using dragon kick which is effectively weaker than bootshine.

Piercing
Given by DRG, utilized by DRG, BRD and MCH. DRG is unique in the case that this debuff is applied as part of their regular rotation. If optimizing their dps was the case, they have absolutely no say in the matter because they have to do disembowel for chaos thrust. Because of that, there's really not much reason to give it to BRD/MCH because it only synergies with each other (and a typical party composition will not have both in the same party)

Magic
Is only given by BRD in the truest sense (hypercharge gives magic vulnerability, which stacks with resistance down). There can be other applications for this...such as dork knight through derilerium. Delirium as it is now, it's practically a joke. It doesn't offer blunt resistance and is effectively a useless skill with a monk in your party. You don't want to make it physical damage down if DRK is supposed to be the magic tank (opposed to PLD being the physical tank). There's not much reason to use delirium even outside of grit because it's a measly 10 extra potency (which then gets eclipsed by Dork Arts + Souleater). It's also the only combo finisher that does not have a dork arts effect, so why not attach a 10% magic resistance (not stackable with foe) down to it's DA effect, considering that DRK is also partially magic damage.

The greatest area of concern is the blunt resistance because it's only ever utilized by one class and has absolutely no synergy, but that als oboils back to MCH being an incredibly wasted potential when tehy could have made it blunt, or even a hybrid that can do blunt resistance down with -Int.

[Dante_V]

There's not much reason to use delirium even outside of grit because it's a measly 10 extra potency (which then gets eclipsed by Dork Arts + Souleater). It's also the only combo finisher that does not have a dork arts effect, so why not attach a 10% magic resistance (not stackable with foe) down to it's DA effect, considering that DRK is also partially magic damage.

Delirium is a staple for DRK Dps and one of the highest non healer raid wide mitigation tools in the game. Delirium and Dark Arts Soul eater are the only combos are drk should be using out of grit. 10 potency is 10 potency, that IS the reason to use it outside of grit. There is literally no reason to use the enmity combo here (and rarely a reason to use PS combo in grit) and if you are pushing dps as a drk and managing MP, Delirium will be used religiously after so many DA/soul eaters as it allows you to use both da/C&P and unload your DP without double dipping. The fact that Delirium the highest unmodified potency of any DRK combo is what makes it good.

[RiceisNice]

..

It's only a mitigation tool if you don't have a MNK in the party (and becomes less effective if they were to actually design future content to favor paladin, like a raid-wide physical damage), otherwise it's 10 extra potency assuming no DA, and at the cost of extra mitigation via self-heal if done while in grit. I've also never really ran into that many circumstances where I can tank outside of grit and not have mana to do DA on every combo. I worded it wrong, but my primary point is that delerium is just really meh for what it is when you have a MNK in the party already, and is very small when the former is considered (as you said, its 10 potency, but 10 potency on something that you're going to be using exclusively for dps is going into the realm of negligible). It's splitting hairs but I hope I clarified where I was getting at.

[Dante_V]

It's only a mitigation tool if you don't have a MNK in the party (and becomes less effective if they were to actually design future content to favor paladin, like a raid-wide physical damage), otherwise it's 10 extra potency assuming no DA, and at the cost of extra mitigation via self-heal if done while in grit. I've also never really ran into that many circumstances where I can tank outside of grit and not have mana to do DA on every combo. I worded it wrong, but my primary point is that delerium is just really meh for what it is when you have a MNK in the party already, and is very small when the former is considered (as you said, its 10 potency, but 10 potency on something that you're going to be using exclusively for dps is going into the realm of negligible). It's splitting hairs but I hope I clarified where I was getting at.

I understand but the post is predicated on assumption. Groups with monks on my server are the exception as opposed to the rule. Statistically speaking you have a greater chance of not having one and having a drk gives even less of a reason to bring one. The regen by souleater is kinda meh tbh.

As far as using DA,SE on every combo as an OT, it's impossible to maintain as if you are blowing all your OGCDs on cool down you are accruing an MP deficit that will lead you to zero. You cant even dark arts/soul eater the entire 2:30 on faust popping BW on cool down. You will bottom out of MP before he dies and lose substantial dps. Delirium is a necessity if you are maxing out dps on DRK and undeniably one of the most valuable raid wide mitigation tools in the game. Splitting hairs is really assuming that a monk is going to be in the party all the time and that you can just DA/SE into infinity as an OT which just isn't mathematically possible.

The only reason I even said anything is because your post is loaded in bias towarsds your argument and isn't very realistic or objective.

[RiceisNice]

..

I can concede that you can't maintain mana upkeep as an OT, but even then, there are select fights that have outgoing damage that'll still trigger your blood price even as an OT (fights that enforce you to tank swap anyway, so part-time OT?). Unless you're referring to full time OTing, in which case would that not be in the same realm of assumption as (not) having a monk?

[Velhart]

The greatest area of concern is the blunt resistance because it's only ever utilized by one class and has absolutely no synergy, but that als oboils back to MCH being an incredibly wasted potential when tehy could have made it blunt, or even a hybrid that can do blunt resistance down with -Int.

At this point it will likely be connected to a new job. Maybe one that uses a club or hammer.

[Sleigh]

Magic
Is only given by BRD in the truest sense (hypercharge gives magic vulnerability, which stacks with resistance down). There can be other applications for this...such as dork knight through derilerium. Delirium as it is now, it's practically a joke. It doesn't offer blunt resistance and is effectively a useless skill with a monk in your party. You don't want to make it physical damage down if DRK is supposed to be the magic tank (opposed to PLD being the physical tank). There's not much reason to use delirium even outside of grit because it's a measly 10 extra potency (which then gets eclipsed by Dork Arts + Souleater). It's also the only combo finisher that does not have a dork arts effect, so why not attach a 10% magic resistance (not stackable with foe) down to it's DA effect, considering that DRK is also partially magic damage.

The greatest area of concern is the blunt resistance because it's only ever utilized by one class and has absolutely no synergy, but that als oboils back to MCH being an incredibly wasted potential when tehy could have made it blunt, or even a hybrid that can do blunt resistance down with -Int.

DRK's raid DPS potential is already incredible by letting you drop MNK, it'd be bad balance wise to buff it further.

Also Delirium over Soul Eater is 20 extra potency, and the in-Grit heal bonus of a regular Soul Eater is so small it's worth just taking the Delirium extra DPS, even with a MNK in the party.

[RiceisNice]

DRK's raid DPS potential is already incredible by letting you drop MNK, it'd be bad balance wise to buff it further.

Also Delirium over Soul Eater is 20 extra potency, and the in-Grit heal bonus of a regular Soul Eater is so small it's worth just taking the Delirium extra DPS, even with a MNK in the party.

I was under the impression that MNK dps is still comparatively high among the three melees? If it's not high enough that dropping monk is better opted in favor of NIN, then I'll concede that.

[Sleigh]

I was under the impression that MNK dps is still comparatively high among the three melees? If it's not high enough that dropping monk is better opted in favor of NIN, then I'll concede that.

The personal DPS of MNK is very nice, on average the highest individual DPS (BLM can destroy it with luck and/or Foe's but the luck thing requires very good luck) but NIN will be able to do roughly 95% of it and then give the group Trick Attack. The tricky thing at i180, when people started getting their numbers to base what jobs are good or not around, is that NIN's sub-stats were so bad in i180 we thought its personal DPS was garbage, now we're seeing it's low 1500s on a dummy and that's crazy good for what it also gives to the group.

We'll have to see in 3.1 if whatever they throw PLD is enough that MNK + PLD can become a part of the top-end meta but I highly doubt it since the devs have made DPS the whole point of the game and there's virtually no way even if PLD did DRK levels of DPS, it + MNK could beat out what a NIN brings.