So its 0-2 in the male female glamour department, yay?

[Belhi]

As for the effort thing - just stop with that already. And I mean everyone, everywhere, in general. I understand that doing any work on the game takes effort (and time and money, yes) - but that is their job. That is what they get paid for - from our pockets. And I don't mean to even imply that they don't work hard enough or any such; but really, that "takes effort" thing as a reasoning/excuse is really getting offensive tbh. Towards us. See the points I've already made above.

Perhaps a better way of suggesting it is what are you willing to give up to get the things you want? If they have a set amount of work they are capable of doing then something has to be given up for new things to be developed. Game development generally seems to be 'try and squeeze in as much as we can within the deadline we have'. This is the very reason they had to give us only 2 dungeons instead of three so they could work on the Sky Island Exploration. And to be fair to other players, make it something you actually value in game since dumping something you don't care about is just being unfair to other players.

Effort can sometimes mean the actual benefits are outweighed by the amount of time and resources implementing it would take or in other cases its something that takes a lot of time to work on without a certainty it will actually work. Most developers have learned to be very careful what they talk about, particularly in detail, as players have a tendency to take everything as promises.

As for difficulty, some times it is simply technical. Many of the inventory issues are tied to there server structure and its backup system. Sometimes it has to do with managing game balance. I suspect one of the reasons often dungeon gear is undyeable is so they can add it as dyeable crafted sets later on. This makes sense because they want the items to be worth creating and they don't have the resources to create entirely unique sets for crafting every time.

I've also said this before but unless we assume that Yoshi P is always lying to us, which is pretty damn paranoid, much of the Cash Shop revenue goes back into the game. Didn't they say that the Cash Shop was originally implemented as a way for them to finance the EU datacentres? That's not to say that what goes into the Cash Shop shouldn't be scrutinised but its not like they are only adding things to the Cash shop. The Cash shop is getting 1 new wig and outfit that we know of, while the patch is adding 4 new hairstyles for each gender and a plethora of new gear sets. Shrinking the games income stream isn't going to get us the extra things we want. For our sub we get good value, certainly compared to what the norm is in the MMO industry today. Further, its distinctly possible that the resources used to create the stuff that goes into the Cash Shop never would have existed without it meaning they may never have been available in the first place anyway.

Finally, on the topic of the OP, I think it's safe to say it a general consensus among players that the disparity among male and female gear is an issue. We know they have at least noticed and its important to continue to make our voice known but lets try to keep a non hostile tone and the conspiracy theories to a minimum. This stuff doesn't get changed overnight. It will likely take months and potentially several patches to right.

Most game developers do game development because it is a passion when they could make a lot more money in other private sector areas. They work their asses off. Lets try and remember that and try to be a bit respectful about it. Too often discussions like this devolve into Angry Mob bitterness which doesn't help anyone.

[Colorful]

snip

Are you really going to claim that it's offensive? Here I was thinking someone taking offense to calling them a "nugget" was bad enough.

Yes, it does take effort, but that's as you pointed out, effort directly translates into time, time they don't think investing into large amounts of time into such things would be worth the effort. Is that hard to believe? No, we've seen it happen time and time again when things get pushed back further and further to avoid patches being delayed, because they know the shitstorm that happens when things are delayed and they know their player base won't sit idly by, you might, but the majority won't and there's no arguing that. As for the glamour log, no, that's not about effort, it's about SE's president being an awful person to the development time.

[Belhi]

Are you really going to claim that it's offensive? Here I was thinking someone taking offense to calling them a "nugget" was bad enough.

Yes, it does take effort, but that's as you pointed out, effort directly translates into time, time they don't think investing into large amounts of time into such things would be worth the effort. Is that hard to believe? No, we've seen it happen time and time again when things get pushed back further and further to avoid patches being delayed, because they know the shitstorm that happens when things are delayed and they know their player base won't sit idly by, you might, but the majority won't and there's no arguing that. As for the glamour log, no, that's not about effort, it's about SE's president being an awful person to the development time.

I suspect that part of the issue here is wether SE is providing sufficient resources to the dev team to meet the goals expected of them. Lacking any inside knowledge we cant fairly accuse the SE executive but I find that there was a two year gap between launch and their first vacation as a red flag. It worries me. Sure the game had to come back and pay off its expenses after the disastrous launch but that still sounds like a recipe for burning out employees, particularly when you take into consideration the overtime devs usually work during crunch times.

[Pomelo]

I suppose this means that Minfilla is getting a new outfit herself too :3

[BreathlessTao]

Ok, the general "what's happening behind the scenes" and "how everything works up there" are definitely outside of the frames of this thread. So is the question "what would you be willing to give up?". (Personally, I sure as hell wouldn't be working furnishings when we already have an abundance of them, especially in comparison to the overall availability of housing, but like I said, that's just me.) But I will say this, and I've also said this in another thread: I know there are always other "more pressing" issues on those priority lists, but there are core elements of the game that are suffering and have been "pushed back" on those same list time and time again by now. If nothing else, at least that should warrant more attention to them. What's even more annoying are the numerous really minor things - can they really not be fixed over a span of months? A year? They could take the time to fix and tweak all those and do nothing else and release it as a content patch - it would be worth the .1 version number increase, that's how many/significant they are.

But this issue itself? "This stuff doesn't get changed overnight"? (Neither does anything else, I think everyone's aware of that and nobody's demanding "changes right now or else".) Here's the point - this very issue has been noted in April, that is if we agree on the fact that an actual official person's reply made in another thread means it does get forwarded to the relevant developers/designers/whatnots (the reply in question has also been quoted in this thread, at least once). Since then - I know, we've had Heavensward. But it's been another 4 months now, since HW, we're preparing for another content update - another addition to the cash shop, and the issue is not only not being addressed, but keeps growing. And someone did ask, in the other recent relevant thread, "why do these threads keep popping up" - or something along those lines, I don't remember the exact words. And I replied there as well: because it keeps being an issue. And it had been an issue quite a while before that, I think for more than a year now, refer those raw numbers Serilda posted... So, yeah, sorry if some of us are getting disgruntled.

I'm not accusing anyone and I don't want to get into conspiracy theories (at least I try not to) - which is why I keep saying "from what we can see" and "from what we're experiencing". Those are not empty phrases, those are pretty much the only things we can base anything off.

[Belhi]

I respect your passion for the game Tao. Its good for the health of the game for players to be proactive in feedback.

I will make a couple of points.

Firstly, its very hard to judge how minor things really are. What might seem minor to us might have a lot of repercussions to deal with when seen from their end. Ignoring conspiracy theories about them trying to squeeze extra money out of us, Id say in general, if there is something minor they haven't done, there is probably a good reason why. Its not like they don't want a happy fan base and if small things offer a lot of happiness they would be mad not to at least get some of them done.

Secondly, if we look at this patch there is really 1 new 'cosplay' outfit which is gender specific only to one gender that we have seen. The bunny outfit is a minor recolor of an existing outfit, with a bent ear. People point out the All Saint's wake outfits and seem to not notice they are literally reskins of existing armor pieces. All the bits your see for both sets are existing pieces with a few extra bobs and bits.

Now one can argue reasonably fairly that releasing the Minfilia set without something similar for males if unfair and that argument has some traction. I would point out that save for Cid, most male NPCs and the Scions specifically don't have many unique sets. Raubahn, Amyeric and Cid are the obvious ones. They also might be waiting for updating outfits for NPCs before allowing us to access their old ones. I'm almost certain at this point all the Scions are going to have a new look when we see them. However its a fair point. If the next 'cosplay' set released isn't Male or doesn't balance out what females are getting then I agree that its a bad sign. I also never said that pressure should continue to be applied. But we shouldn't leap to conclusions that there has been no change at all yet. We haven't even seen the full release yet.

I tend to play devil's advocate in these types of threads simply because I think its important for people to consider the other side of the situation when setting their expectations. Mistaken assumptions are probably the number one cause of forum rage in games.

[Reinha]

Id say in general, if there is something minor they haven't done, there is probably a good reason why. Its not like they don't want a happy fan base and if small things offer a lot of happiness they would be mad not to at least get some of them done.

Secondly, if we look at this patch there is really 1 new 'cosplay' outfit which is gender specific only to one gender that we have seen. The bunny outfit is a minor recolor of an existing outfit, with a bent ear. People point out the All Saint's wake outfits and seem to not notice they are literally reskins of existing armor pieces. All the bits your see for both sets are existing pieces with a few extra bobs and bits.

Now one can argue reasonably fairly that releasing the Minfilia set without something similar for males if unfair and that argument has some traction. I would point out that save for Cid, most male NPCs and the Scions specifically don't have many unique sets. Raubahn, Amyeric and Cid are the obvious ones. They also might be waiting for updating outfits for NPCs before allowing us to access their old ones. I'm almost certain at this point all the Scions are going to have a new look when we see them. However its a fair point. If the next 'cosplay' set released isn't Male or doesn't balance out what females are getting then I agree that its a bad sign. I also never said that pressure should continue to be applied. But we shouldn't leap to conclusions that there has been no change at all yet. We haven't even seen the full release yet.

I can't for the life of me think on a good reason why they made a "minor recolor with a bent ear" for females but nothing similar for males. Where is the recolor of Riviera Doublet and Slops? We are talking about using the exact same model and clicking the paint button, for crying out loud. Resources are not an excuse, yet somehow they only bothered to recolor an outfit for female characters. Releasing scion gear one by one I can understand, but not the way the handled the "minor recolor". No one is leaping to conclusions here. No matter how you look at it, female glamour got more attention from the devs again.

If they somehow make the bunny gear unisex, I will take back everything I said above. But I don't see it ever happening.

[Pomelo]

^ They did say somewhere that the bent bunny ears were going to be for males, the bunny stuff is already dye-able so I think they were just showcasing those ears, and not a new bunny outfit...but if this is the case
WHY showcase it on a female model and not a male one?

[Eul]

^ They did say somewhere that the bent bunny ears were going to be for males, the bunny stuff is already dye-able so I think they were just showcasing those ears, and not a new bunny outfit...but if this is the case
WHY showcase it on a female model and not a male one?

Really? I do hope the bunny ears gonna belong for all gender. *hype intensifies* Maybe we will see it until it's gonna live in patch note

[Serilda]

Sadly that's unconfirmed. This exchange with the community team (who I believe are genuinely doing their best and being held back by a bias in the design team they can't control) stated that the ears (and specifically the ears) were planned to be unisex but they're not sure whether they actually will be. Furthermore the new bunny costume is a whole new outfit; there were already two different sets of ears/bustiers on the NPCs and it's been noted that the dye patterns seem different on other parts.

Even if the new outfit is unisex - and I hope it is, in spite of the indication that it might not be - they still have work to do to address the size of the gap they've created between the genders. The community team is listening to us so now we have to keep talking about it and spreading awareness until the actual development team follows suit.