What they mean by "change the damage calculations of tanks"?

[Kaisinel]

I just hope it doesnt turn into some stance dependent nightmare. If stat weights change dependent on stances... oh god...

I'll be rolling on scholar again.

Please let it be this!!!!!

[Nomad-phx]

Big whoop, so damage gets recalculated. Like there's not gonna be 1 war that figures out the perfect ratio of damage affecting stats and gets copied becoming the new "meta"? Give it 5-15 minutes after it actually changes and everyone will start the next big tank build. Please look forward to it.

[Marxam]

I highly doubt they would make vit a damage modifier. Imagine high hp and damage equivalent to if you stacked str? op much. I feel there are a few ways they can go about this.

1. STR currently is scaled at 1 but what they could do for tank is make it .9 so they inherently deal less damage but putting points into str is still not a complete waste.
2. Split the enmity generation to VIT in combination with the first suggestion so that tanks can strike a balance between VIT and STR instead of just stacking STR after hitting 16-17k hp in tank stance.
3. This is probably what I feel they will do. Change the algorithm for damage for tanks. Atm tanks and dps go off similar if not the same algorithm for doing damage. SE will keep the stat weights across the board but as they stated in the LL the will "modify the Damage calculations".

I don't think they will put diminishing returns as STR and VIT is always increasing and is a main stat in armor. I do wonder how they will handle raid wide dps with the "lowered" tank damage. Will it be the same high dps ceiling forcing more out of the tanks and healers exacerbating the current problem of tanks trying to push out more dps but now with the added problem of dealing less damage? If they are going to "lower" or "modify" tank damage they really need to seriously think this over as you will be creating more issues than solutions.

Personally I feel that if there were more tank busters per phase instead of per fight then tanks might have a reason to use VIT until they have it on farm.

[Syzygian]

I cant find an issue with them adjusting vit so that a 210 vit piece, for instance, provides the dps and ehp of pentamelds. Thats actually a statistical buff. =/

No one thinks you should have vit count for hp and damage at 100% of their current scaling if not for the fact that it would nerf tank dps by an utterly miniscule amount across the board which a lot of people are bullheadedly opposed to.

I.e. 50 vit in 3.2 could give the equivalent of what 35 vit+35str currently gives.

I will happily do 800-850 dps instead of 900 if it means we will be rid of the venom the tanking meta is drowning in revolving around primary stats and gear choices. There's also zero reason to assume raid dps requirements won't be adjusted to accomodate such changes, so i dont buy the argument that "oh if they nerf anyone's damage by 50dps we won't be able to clear!" Cmon now.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I would make "Vitality" also give damage, but I would make Jewelry give less vitality.

For example, a piece that gives 35 strength gives only 15-20 vitality.

[Xenosan]

Well I knew those numbers would be taken too literally. It's just drastic relativity for demonstration.

But hey if it happens, we know why:

"SE PLD needz closer DPS to WAR!"

YoshiP: "Okay." *loads nerf gun *shoots pld first for lulz

[Syzygian]

Am i the only one that sees the irony in people threatening to ragequit the game if tank dps is nerfed by a function of it potentially not being optimal to be running around in full slaying gear anymore?

The hysteria ensuing from entertaining the idea of the devs literally halving tank dps (wholly unrealistic) only serves to add more and more bitter salt to a thread that is rapidly derailing. Lets try and stay realistic and stop catastrophizing as though your dps is a stained glass window to be imminently shattered.

[Cynric]

Am i the only one that sees the irony in people threatening to ragequit the game if tank dps is nerfed by a function of it potentially not being optimal to be running around in full slaying gear anymore?

I don't think people are going to quit the game, we'll just lose a giant chunk of tanks and gain a chunk of DPS. I for one would retire my Dark Knight as half of the reason I play a tank (and DRK more specifically) is because it has decent burst and good survivability in PvP. It's also a really fun way to tank trying to maximize my DPS, if they say.. Cut the DPS in half , there'd be no reason to play it in PvP, since it doesn't have the level of CC a PLD or War has. Not to mention killing someone 1v1 would be a pain and if they cap my DPS ... Well that's no fun. Then the only thing I contribute to a group is keeping hate and standing in front of the boss. Well I guess I could always watch TV during encounters like I did on PLD in 2.0

[DarioSkydragon]

Am i the only one that sees the irony in people threatening to ragequit the game if tank dps is nerfed by a function of it potentially not being optimal to be running around in full slaying gear anymore?

The hysteria ensuing from entertaining the idea of the devs literally halving tank dps (wholly unrealistic) only serves to add more and more bitter salt to a thread that is rapidly derailing. Lets try and stay realistic and stop catastrophizing as though your dps is a stained glass window to be imminently shattered.

I really like the current tank meta. In HW, tank DPS scaled up and if im in full STR acc i can beat non-optimal dps players while mt/ot on dps stance. Things got so much better for me. I have ot and mt a lot at 2.X, but tanking now is so much more fun and challenging.

[Syzygian]

I really like the current tank meta. In HW, tank DPS scaled up and if im in full STR acc i can beat non-optimal dps players while mt/ot on dps stance. Things got so much better for me. I have ot and mt a lot at 2.X, but tanking now is so much more fun and challenging.

Your posts are worded like advertisements or endorsements for a product. o.o

I'm super curious as to how things were so poor for you pre-HW?

Tanking was super challenging in FCOB with the exception of the faceroll (for tanks) that is T11. What were you doing that lacked so much challenge? WAR sans Defiance or a PLD in SwO, in full slaying gear, could out-DPS bad DPS players in 2.x too. DPS tanking didn't appear magically out of thin air in 3.0....

Its pretty sweet that tanks can deal good DPS when you play them right but where did this attitude come from like we are entitled to it through what essentially amounts to an oversight that lets us cheese content by putting on gear not intended for our job? Of course its more efficient and (arguably) needed to clear content, but you have to know in the scope of the design and mechanics of the game that we are not meant to be wearing slaying gear to play optimally.

They'd have to modify enmity calculations with this also, I suspect, or you run into an issue with this where tank DPS increases at only 70% the rate of DPS classes. Keep that up long enough, and even the best tanks will struggle to keep aggro.

I keep seeing these enmity arguments. You people do realize that a tank can keep hate against equally geared DPS/healers in full fending gear right? If they made damage scale with VIT, even if it is only half as much as fully gearing in STR currently does, that's still 50% more enmity over what you actually need.

It's also a really fun way to tank trying to maximize my DPS, if they say.. Cut the DPS in half , there'd be no reason to play it

I'm continuously seeing this in this thread. People essentially coming out and saying that the reason they play tank is... DPS. I wear slaying and melds with the best of them but it has zero to do with me maximizing my DPS as a player; that is rests solely on my muscle memory, ability to time oGCDs properly, maximize uptime, and maintain a high level of raid awareness and optimal GCD usage. If tanks could only wear fending gear there would still be poor tank DPS and good tank DPS it would just be based on "gasp" skill and not gear.

If you go to FFLogs right now and have a look at tanking DPS leaderboards do you know what they tell you? Nothing. That's because you have no idea what gear they were wearing. Maybe they were wearing pentamelds, maybe full slaying, maybe a mix of both. Maybe they even had some fending pieces. Look at their healers... where they parsing 250 DPS combined or 650? You can't even tell who's a good player or not because there's no baseline gear level by which to measure because everybody is wearing something different depending on the needs of their group. If you look at DRGs, you can, within a certain margin, tell who is playing optimally because you can be assured that they are all packing about 200-235 STR in their right side. 30-40 point gap. With tanks that cap can be hundreds of points wide. I know tanks that raid that are HORRIBAD that wear full slaying and tanks that raid that are actually very good at their jobs that wear mostly fending or melds.

This ridiculous muddying of what is or is not optimal play is what I'm hoping squeenix does away with. Does it necessarily mean our DPS is getting nerfed into the ground? No. I don't understand why people insist on fear-mongering that this is what is at hand.