What they mean by "change the damage calculations of tanks"?

[Xenosan]

but I don't agree here at all. You forget about how arbitrary issues of DPS really are in balance. It's about ratios rather than absolute magnitudes.

I hate embellishing my worst-case scenario fear here, but the mention of ratios actually reinforces another reason why they'd have a bilateral nerf to tank DPS. The higher the DPS contribution of tanks, the greater the significance of the DPS imbalance between the 3 tank jobs (specifically that difference's relevance to the rest of the raid). If all tanks suffered the same DPS nerf via damage calculation, then their max DPS potential relative to each other remains the same, but the ratio does change for rest of the raid.

Hypothetical 50% DPS nerf:
WAR 900, PLD 700, Bard 1,000
Post scaling adjustment
WAR 450, PLD 350, Bard 1,000

The Ratio between WAR/PLD DPS is the same, but only half of what it was in relation to that Bard. When you cut down the DPS of all 3 tanks via the same means (damage calculation) you are subsequently cutting down the disparity between tank job DPS (in relation to the rest of the party) by that same amount. The difference is less significant to rest of the raid. Alternatively, increasing tank DPS unilaterally via damage calculation widens the gap further.

/Devil's Advocate.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I hate embellishing my worst-case scenario fear here, but the mention of ratios actually reinforces another reason why they'd nerf tank DPS. The higher the DPS contribution of tanks, the greater the significance of the DPS imbalance between the 3 tank jobs (specifically that difference's relevance to the rest of the raid). If all tanks suffered the same DPS nerf via damage calculation, then their max DPS potential relative to each other remains the same, but the ratio does change for rest of the raid.

Hypothetical 50% DPS nerf:
WAR 900, PLD 700, Bard 1,000
Post scaling adjustment
WAR 450, PLD 350, Bard 1,000

The Ratio between WAR/PLD DPS is the same, but only half of what it was in relation to that Bard. When you cut down the DPS of all 3 tanks via the same means (damage calculation) you are subsequently cutting down the disparity between tank job DPS (in relation to the rest of the party) by that same amount. The difference is less significant to rest of the raid. Alternatively, increasing tank DPS unilaterally via damage calculation widens the gap further.

/Devil's Advocate.

Luckily I have other games to play and spend money on when or if that happens. I hope people have fun with their Tank ques. I will be luling.

[Rbstr]

*snip*

I guess, I don't figure that tank DPS will remain quite so disparate between the jobs. Especially since we've heard that the Paladin will be receiving some attention in 3.1.
...If paladin really is getting a buff? If it's just TP changes then I'll be more worried about an overall tank buff.

But it seems kind of nuts to me they'd add in all these tank DPS options in 3.0 only to squish it down in a big way.
My biggest bets are:
1. Forcing tanks what are actively tanking things to use tank stance though higher outgoing damage, super high front accuracy caps, hate tweaks or something else.
2. Forcing tanks back into fending accessories with role-restrictions, changing the damage primary to vit, adding strength to them and/or increasing the HP thresholds.

It might be that they don't want tank DPS quite as high as simply swapping the stats would have it and they hit the scaling factor a little bit, but a really big hit, or complicated Strength cap mechanics seem unlikely.

[Kenji1134]

Here's another thought to the whole tank dps is too high thing.

We have a hate mod on the tanking stance of 2.3x, why not throw a hate mod on the dps stance of 0.5x?

The full str dps stance meta works for 2 reasons.
1. Tanks can survive in dps stance due to predictable damage countered by CD stacking.
2. Tanks can hold aggro using higher str while being in dps stance.

If we cut the hate generation of tanks in dps stance in half, then it becomes significantly more difficult to actually tank while in dps stance, aside from short bursts such as burn phases, the dps would simply catch up to you unless you already had a MASSIVE hate lead from being in tank stance.

I for one am in some ways for having tank damage be "controlled" by prescribed gearing, the same way every other class is. I believe that this opens the door for strengthening the dps stance of tanks (especially with a hate nerf when in dps stance), and designing encounters for phases with an OT going full ham, or like Ravana where certain Liberations are literally a full bore burn phase for the entire group.

We shouldnt be so explicitly looking for ways to break SE's game design, but instead I think we should try working together to allow SE the design flexibility to offer us new fight mechanics and engaging (without being overly punishing) content, which they can only do when they know exactly what we can do, and can tune things appropriately.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Lower Tank damage or raising it?

Honestly, if they lower it I imagine people will be switching to DPS and tank ques will be double. GG. Tanks are already nerfed in a lot of ways.

I don't mind if they made it VIT but they should remove the damage penalty from tank stances.


If they do a "Str/Vit" split, then unfortunately Pentameld gear will still be much better. Since you know, it has both. So I don't see that happening.

[Syzygian]

^^^Do you ever make a non-troll post? Tanks deal insanely high damage right now. How the hell are they nerfed at all? Even a 10% statistical nerf would still leave things like 7war1sch cheesing well within the realm of possibility. The idea here is to homogenize itemization so we can finally get rid of this toxic "full slaying or you're a bad/lazy player" crap. Twelve forbid the only yardstick we are left with by which to gauge skill be... well... skill, and not whether or not you clicked your own job's gear onto the right side of your character sheet.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

^^^Do you ever make a non-troll post? Tanks deal insanely high damage right now. How the hell are they nerfed at all? Even a 10% statistical nerf would still leave things like 7war1sch cheesing well within the realm of possibility. The idea here is to homogenize itemization so we can finally get rid of this toxic "full slaying or you're a bad/lazy player" crap. Twelve forbid the only yardstick we are left with by which to gauge skill be... well... skill, and not what you clicked onto your character sheet.

A DPS should be doing a ton more damage then a tank unless the tank is in DPS stance. Twelve forbid there are more then one type of playstyles for a class.

Tanks are outparsing: "BAD DPS", good DPS are getting much higher.

For example: Most DPS in this game, they spam 1 2 3 and don't do any of their abilities. They are LAZY.

You can't balance around bad. That is just stupid.

[Syzygian]

A DPS should be doing a ton more damage then a tank unless the tank is in DPS stance. Twelve forbid there are more then one type of playstyles for a class.

Tanks are outparsing: "BAD DPS", good DPS are getting much higher.

For example: Most DPS in this game, they spam 1 2 3 and don't do any of their abilities. They are LAZY.

Your posts are misleading blanket statements that kill thousands of kittens and throw babies out with bathwater.

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

Hopefully they tie VIT into DPS, drop STR altogether, and make encounters hit tanks way way harder.

This will solve a lot of problems at once. Tanks will no longer need to spend millions each raid tier, tanks will actually be able to need roll on gear they want, new tanks won't be ridiculed for not wearing another classes gear, DPS happy tanks will still be putting out great numbers, turtle tanks will finally be able to feel defensive, and most importantly every will be happy.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Hopefully they tie VIT into DPS, drop STR altogether, and make encounters hit tanks way way harder.

This will solve a lot of problems at once. Tanks will no longer need to spend millions each raid tier, tanks will actually be able to need roll on gear they want, new tanks won't be ridiculed for not wearing another classes gear, DPS happy tanks will still be putting out great numbers, turtle tanks will finally be able to feel defensive, and most importantly every will be happy.

Then VIT's HP would need to be lowered.

Vitality would have to give half the health it currently does if it also affects damage.

Having a bunch more vitality and doing the same damage I did before?