What they mean by "change the damage calculations of tanks"?

[Alistaire]

My goal with this post is:

1) Try to collect opinions on the specific sentence quoted.

2) To offer my opinion on the current tank meta, which I approve.

As you said, we tanks always will do our best to adapt and improve our gameplay, whatever the meta for our job. However, as tank, I do not agree to SE if they want to reduce our DPS to half, only to fending accessories become relevant again.

It's a little late to collect opinions on this. With the way it's worded, SE already has what they're doing in mind. That reduces this whole thread to at best, a plea to change their mind, but more likely just conjecture, which we can't really do anything about. Wait till whatever is going to happen happens, then complaints about it will have some potential to be heard.

[Jpec07]

However, as tank, I do not agree to SE if they want to reduce our DPS to half, only to fending accessories become relevant again.

But that's just it--we don't actually have any clue what they're going to do to tank DPS. For all we know, they've just changed a 1x Str-to-Damage modifier to a .9 Str-to-damage modifier. Granted, that wouldn't make sense with the rest of the changes they're trying to accomplish, but I highly doubt they'd slash tank DPS that much (if even at all).

And even if they did normalize tank DPS, the majority of tanks (PLD and DRK) would actually benefit--and WAR would be brought back down to the same level as the rest of us. But we have no indication they're normalizing tank damage. In fact, evidence seems to suggest that they want some disparity there, and that they like having WAR be the one to do high DPS as the "de facto" off tank (see any letter from the developer where people ask about WAR or PLD DPS).

Might they fix tank balance by doing this? Sure. Would they change how classes play and fundamentally alter their flavor? I very highly doubt it.

[Nomad-phx]

I still don't know what y'all are so terrified of. Xeno will figure out max deeps for you to copy(just like in 3.0 lol) so just give him time to make your new build

[Xenosan]

Just wanna add 2cents that reducing the scaling rate of STR does go against the point like Jpec mentioned. It'd encourage more Slaying accessory stacking not less. That's why I think it's a cap on STR they're alluding to (opposed to some other adjustment to DMG scaling, including swapping STR for VIT).

Right now it's more an approach of finding the soft VIT cap necessary for progression, then dedicating all remaining slots to STR. I think SE is going for is to reverse that approach with a cap on STR. We'd look for the STR cap, but after meeting it it's all in on Fending/VIT (because there's no alternative).

^That at least is how I interpret their comments on melding/tank accessories and their phasing of an "appropriate state."


--
Xenosys Vex's 2.x WAR guide isn't about just moar DPS, it's first foremost a tanking guide. And it spot on demonstrates that the offensive approach with WAR makes for a far more effective tank (defensively) than a VIT stacking WAR (the PLD wanna-be). And that sort of tank style may be on trial right now. If tank damage will end up plateauing, important components of like playstyles like opening with Storm Eye and DRKs using little to no Power Slashes may not be possible.

[Nadirah]

I don't see what everyone is afraid of.

If VIT on gear is equal to or greater than STR on gear(not in game, can't look) and they use the exact same formula (ie; 1:1 STR to AP) you're not going to lose attack power, nor are you going to lose potency on heals etc that scale off AP.

On top of it, they can safely assume everyone at a certain gear level will have a certain amount of hp and can scale incoming damage appropriately.

What's the problem? Outside the "its always been this way", " I like complexity", and "tanky tanking is boring" arguments.

This also solves the problem of 5 classes rolling on Slaying accs and fending rotting outside goofing around.

[Donjo]

I don't know if this has been mentioned earlier, but some people in the last two pages at least are operating under a false assumption.

The changes to Tank Damage Calculations will occur in 3.2, not 3.1. SE is neatly avoiding the stigma of severely interfering with this tier's progression, so we have plenty of time to prepare.

[Nadirah]

I don't get your assumption that they're going to suddenly make VIT levels lower than they currently are.

They aren't going to put less VIT on gear because it translates to attack power because of "omg so much health". No, they're going to make that health useful and bosses/mobs hit harder.

Where are you guys getting this stupid assumption?

[Donjo]

I don't get your assumption that they're going to suddenly make VIT levels lower than they currently are.

They aren't going to put less VIT on gear because it translates to attack power because of "omg so much health". No, they're going to make that health useful and bosses/mobs hit harder.

Where are you guys getting this stupid assumption?

I'm personally getting the impression that people are working off the fact that a Full VIT Tank has more VIT than a full STR Tank has STR. For all jobs right now, 1 Damage Stat = 1 Attack Power. Therefore, making a simple switch to VIT being the Tank Damage Stat will cause their Attack Power will be even higher than even the most gung-ho of STR Tanks did before the change.

So there are thoughts that SE may lower VIT numbers in order to avoid Tanks dealing even more damage than they already are. Me? I think that VIT levels should stay the same. It's the amount of HP they were designed to have by wearing the gear specifically assigned to them. If dealing damage too close to dedicated DPS is a fear, all that need be done is change the relationship between Damage Stat and Attack Power for Tanks only. Instead of them being in a 1:1 ratio, they can be in a 1:0.8 ratio or something.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I'm personally getting the impression that people are working off the fact that a Full VIT Tank has more VIT than a full STR Tank has STR. For all jobs right now, 1 Damage Stat = 1 Attack Power. Therefore, making a simple switch to VIT being the Tank Damage Stat will cause their Attack Power will be even higher than even the most gung-ho of STR Tanks did before the change.

So there are thoughts that SE may lower VIT numbers in order to avoid Tanks dealing even more damage than they already are. Me? I think that VIT levels should stay the same. It's the amount of HP they were designed to have by wearing the gear specifically assigned to them. If dealing damage too close to dedicated DPS is a fear, all that need be done is change the relationship between Damage Stat and Attack Power for Tanks only. Instead of them being in a 1:1 ratio, they can be in a 1:0.8 ratio or something.

Tanks already have -20% - 35% damage reduction. If they are changing the stats they should remove the penalty associated to the stances. Otherwise that is a double nerf to damage.

Taking 1 and making it 0.8 is a huge nerf.

Tanks are nowhere near the damage of dedicated DPS, only bad or undergeared DPS are having this issue.

I don't see why "DPS" are doing so low when they have buffs that increase damage and their skills are a lot higher potency with higher base damage to boot. I think the main issue, is lazy+bad DPS.

Unlike DPS, Tanks cannot offord to be lazy or they lose aggression. So they always have to play their best, tanks that do not more or less lose aggro frequently because they try to play lazy or just spam their 1/2/3 aggro.

I think the issue mostly is people want to hide behind passive defense, spam 1-2-3 and watch netflix instead of playing the game.

[Freyyy]

snip

If that's the issue then they could just make it so that the gear from 3.2 will have its VIT value equal to its STR/DEX/INT/MND value.