Thread: 3.1 First update without a new primal?

Originally Posted by Nalien

Again, this is about quality verses quantity...Yes 2.1 added Wolves' Den, but it was of such utterly terrible quality that they might as well have held it back until they realized how terrible Morale was. Yes 2.1 added Housing, but its introduction was meant with much rage, rather than fanfare, off the prices alone, never mind the obvious supply/demand issue that is still a problem.

2.1 had quantity, I've never denied that, but what it lacked for a fair few of its pieces of content, was quality. So far, based off 2.0~2.55, I have no reason to doubt the quality of most of 3.1 content. Lord of Verminion alone seems more enjoyable than anything 2.1 offered, and Sky Exploration certainly has some potential. I mean really, 3.1 is adding an entire new zone with Sky Exploration, would you really quantify that in the same level as the Aesthetician?

Quality is subjective. The prices of housing were high, but there was no demand problem. People got over the housing prices after they were adjusted. The supply problme of housing was not an issue throughout 2.1. Wolves den, like blazer said:

No matter how WD worked out, it introduced PVP to the game. That alone meant they had to add new mechanics, along with other changes (new skills, leveling system, gear, areas, skill changes) JUST for the pvp they introduced. It was a BIG change in a patch that included multiple BIG changes.

So, I won't belabor that point much further. WD added a lot to the game, it was a major amount of content.

Lord of verminion has a very high chance of ending up just like the rest of the gold saucer attractions: minigames no one cares about after having X amount of MPG. Every instance, dungeon, and encounter comes with a "new zone," so that point seems equally moot, especially since the zone is just more of the same assets we have already seen. Also, spare me this point of taking one of the biggest features of 3.1 and comparing it to the smallest feature of 2.1.

3.1 has less trials
3.1 has less dunegons
3.1 has less misc. content

you don't even need to drag pvp or housing into this to still prove my point. You're simply wrong and at this point you are just white knighting 3.1 and saying it will be of a level of quality we have never seen before. Pull your head out of the sand 3.1 is going to be CT reborn, instanced hunts, irrelevant gold saucer content, and go kill bis ex 500 times for a 210 weapon. Its going to be more of the same exact content we have seen, except this time, we had to wait an abnormally long amount of time for less content than what 2.1 brought to the table.

Originally Posted by zosia

You're simply wrong and at this point you are just white knighting 3.1 and saying it will be of a level of quality we have never seen before. Pull your head out of the sand 3.1 is going to be CT reborn, instanced hunts, irrelevant gold saucer content, and go kill bis ex 500 times for a 210 weapon. Its going to be more of the same exact content we have seen, except this time, we had to wait an abnormally long amount of time for less content than what 2.1 brought to the table.

You seem incredibly unhappy with the game and have already presupposed the next upcoming patch is garbage, why are you here again exactly? I'm dead serious about that, for all your claims of white knighting you would be the black knight in this scenario, spreading doom and gloom to the forums without any actual knowledge of what the next patch will contain or how it will play out other than the same tidbits we've been given.

I'll admit the game has flaws, all MMO's do. But I guess you expect the moon to be provided to every single patch from mere human developers. If people out there hate the game they should move on, if you are interested in improving it try realistic constructive criticism and present viable solutions you think might actually work.

Originally Posted by Nalien

Again, this is about quality verses quantity...

Yes 2.1 added Wolves' Den, but it was of such utterly terrible quality that they might as well have held it back until they realized how terrible Morale was. Yes 2.1 added Housing, but its introduction was meant with much rage, rather than fanfare, off the prices alone, never mind the obvious supply/demand issue that is still a problem.

2.1 had quantity, I've never denied that, but what it lacked for a fair few of its pieces of content, was quality. So far, based off 2.0~2.55, I have no reason to doubt the quality of most of 3.1 content. Lord of Verminion alone seems more enjoyable than anything 2.1 offered, and Sky Exploration certainly has some potential. I mean really, 3.1 is adding an entire new zone with Sky Exploration, would you really quantify that in the same level as the Aesthetician?

You keep saying quality > quantity, but how do you know the way things will turn out? You can hope it'll be better, but that's ultimately up to each players opinion. I would actually hope the quality would be better considering how much longer this content cycle is.Everyone was extremely excited for WD and Housing, much more so than what they're adding in this update. It's pretty unfair to you to come out and say those additions to the game weren't actually "quality". How many FC's worked together to get the gil for houses @2.1? How many FC's based events at their house? How many crafters were more involved in the game to make furniture items? I don't think you really understand the impact of something of that magnitude. You may cry foul over people initially being angry at prices. I see it as one of the few things in the game that built a community.

As far as WD goes, it was/is still unbalanced and sort of a mess. But it was the foundation that brought us frontlines. It gave players a completely optional side point in this game (which it needed very much). If you don't like it, then sorry, it's not for you. I think most players knew that this is a PVE game. Everyone knew WD would only appeal to a very small player %. It gave players something to grind. Ranking up in pvp is one of the very few time consuming achievements. You acknowledge the fact that these were added, but I think you fail to look at the big picture (or don't remember) of what these meant to the game, and how desired these features were at the time.

I assure you, my head isn't in the sand, but at the same time I'm not wearing rose tinted glasses and acting like Ifrit (Extreme) was some kind of massive inclusion, you want a real break down of what 2.1 added? Here;

• New Main Scenario Missions, standard.
• Good King Moggle Mog, which was new, unless you played 1.23.
• Three Extreme Primals, all of which were just recycled from existing content.
• The Ultima Ballad, another piece of recycled content.
• Treasure Maps, which offered a three unique minions and recycled existing enemies and drops.
• Amalj'aa and Sylph Dailies, this was actually new.
• Wolves' Den, which may have added stuff, but needs 3.2 to bail it out (and to clarify, Wolves' Den Pier was in there at launch).
• Housing, which is still waiting on its bail out.
• Crystal Tower, with its own set of gear.
• One new dungeon, two recycled dungeons, all of which dropped a set of gear which was recycled off existing gear.
• Hildibrand, how could we forget him.
• Haircuts.

That is the quality 2.1 added. Notice how much of it is simply recycled from old content? I sure as hell do. I notice stuff which, to this day, people are complaining about and demanding be fixed.

Now lets look at what we know 3.1 will be adding;

• New Main Scenario Missions, standard.
• Void Ark, with its own set of gear and recycles at least one boss.
• Reclamation of inactive Housing. What? You're going to count the ~500 plots 2.1 added but not this?
• One new dungeon, one recycled dungeon, an entirely new set of gear.
• Vanu Vanu Dailies.
• Saint Endalim Scholasticate quests.
• New Relics, though we know little about these.
• Lord of Verminion, which you're as quick to discredit in the same way I "discredit" Wolves' Den and Housing...
• Sky Exploration, which is an entirely new event, and entirely new zone, complete with an entirely new set of gear.

That's what we know. Unconfirmed stuff, like speculating The Singularity Reactor (Extreme), I'll leave out for now. Still a ways off 3.1 actually being released, so there is plenty of time for them to add stuff to this list.

You know what I see here though? Less recycling of old content. In fact, I see more new sets of gear, I see an entirely new zone. I consider that kind of content to be worth more than something like haircuts, or something people can't even use because of how poorly it was implemented. When 3.1 hits, I'll be able to play Lord of Verminion, I'll be able to go exploring the sky, I'll be able to obtain Relics. The same simply wasn't true for something like Housing and indeed still isn't.

More things =/= better. Where were you complaining about 2.2 onwards, because I'm fairly certain no update has added more than 2.1... How could they? 2.1 had three Extremes and Ultima, never mind they fact that they were heavily recycled. I'm looking at 2.1 for what it was, a lot of recycled stuff and stuff that didn't, and still doesn't work. Likewise, I'm looking at 3.1 for what it is, less quantity, but easily the chance for better quality. Excuse me for not being so bloody pessimistic about new content, how dare I consider Sky Exploration on its own to be worth more than anything 2.1 added, 2.1 added haircuts for crying out loud, that's so bloody amazing, 3.1 is just terrible for adding an entirely new area to explore.

Originally Posted by Blazer

As far as WD goes, it was/is still unbalanced and sort of a mess.

No, Wolves' Den is fine now days. The only issue with it is people abandoned it after 2.1, so the queues are terrible and few data centers can get matches going. Balance is fine, the only thing 3.2 needs to do is give people a reason to go back there. Stuff like AP, PvP EXP and Morale got sorted out before/alongside Frontlines.

And yes, I don't know how good 3.1s content will be, forgive me for being optimistic about a game I pay monthly for... If I was so bloody negative about the lead up to each update, I wouldn't even be here anymore. The bottom line though, is that it takes far more work to produce an entire new zone (an entire new Heavensward zone, no less), than it does to let people change their hair. Most of 2.1 was very easy for the developers to produce, because so much of it was just recycling, 3.1 is going to have some of that of course, if you think The Singularity Reactor (Extreme) is on the way, but the point still stands. Sky Exploration is an entirely new area, that takes far more effort from the development team than say, Treasure Maps. Lord of Verminion is, oddly, on a similar scale to Wolves' Den (you will be able to play against other players, after all).

I'm going to laugh my damn arse off, if 3.1 goes "Oh no, all the Primals are back!" and we get Ifrit, Titan, Garuda, Leviathan, Ramuh, Shiva, and Odin (Savage), and people complain that "this isn't new content, it's just recycled old stuff!", because the exact same complaint can be leveled at much of 2.1...

Originally Posted by Nalien

I assure you, my head isn't in the sand, but at the same time I'm not wearing rose tinted glasses and acting like Ifrit (Extreme) was some kind of massive inclusion, you want a real break down of what 2.1 added? Here;

• New Main Scenario Missions, standard.
• Good King Moggle Mog, which was new, unless you played 1.23.
• Three Extreme Primals, all of which were just recycled from existing content.
• The Ultima Ballad, another piece of recycled content.
• Treasure Maps, which offered a three unique minions and recycled existing enemies and drops.
• Amalj'aa and Sylph Dailies, this was actually new.
• Wolves' Den, which may have added stuff, but needs 3.2 to bail it out (and to clarify, Wolves' Den Pier was in there at launch).
• Housing, which is still waiting on its bail out.
• Crystal Tower, with its own set of gear.
• One new dungeon, two recycled dungeons, all of which dropped a set of gear which was recycled off existing gear.
• Hildibrand, how could we forget him.
• Haircuts.

That is the quality 2.1 added. Notice how much of it is simply recycled from old content? I sure as hell do. I notice stuff which, to this day, people are complaining about and demanding be fixed.

Now lets look at what we know 3.1 will be adding;

• New Main Scenario Missions, standard.
• Void Ark, with its own set of gear and recycles at least one boss.
• Reclamation of inactive Housing. What? You're going to count the ~500 plots 2.1 added but not this? (Just a rehash of housing)
• One new dungeon, one recycled dungeon, an entirely new set of gear. (Just a rehash of a dungeon)
• Vanu Vanu Dailies. (just a rehash of beast tribe dailies)
• Saint Endalim Scholasticate quests. (To what? flag the dungeon? Get real)
• New Relics, though we know little about these. (rehashed content from ARR)
• Lord of Verminion, which you're as quick to discredit in the same way I "discredit" Wolves' Den and Housing...
• Sky Exploration, which is an entirely new event, and entirely new zone, complete with an entirely new set of gear. (rehash of hunts)

That's what we know. Unconfirmed stuff, like speculating The Singularity Reactor (Extreme) (rehashed trial), I'll leave out for now. Still a ways off 3.1 actually being released, so there is plenty of time for them to add stuff to this list.

You know what I see here though? Less recycling of old content. In fact, I see more new sets of gear, I see an entirely new zone. I consider that kind of content to be worth more than something like haircuts, or something people can't even use because of how poorly it was implemented. When 3.1 hits, I'll be able to play Lord of Verminion, I'll be able to go exploring the sky, I'll be able to obtain Relics. The same simply wasn't true for something like Housing and indeed still isn't.

More things =/= better. Where were you complaining about 2.2 onwards, because I'm fairly certain no update has added more than 2.1... How could they? 2.1 had three Extremes and Ultima, never mind they fact that they were heavily recycled. I'm looking at 2.1 for what it was, a lot of recycled stuff and stuff that didn't, and still doesn't work. Likewise, I'm looking at 3.1 for what it is, less quantity, but easily the chance for better quality. Excuse me for not being so bloody pessimistic about new content, how dare I consider Sky Exploration on its own to be worth more than anything 2.1 added, 2.1 added haircuts for crying out loud, that's so bloody amazing, 3.1 is just terrible for adding an entirely new area to explore.

Allows me to use your rehashed logic against you. I bolded everything in your argument that is just a rehash of content we have already had. I guess we must be looking at different posts, I see a lot of rehashed content. 2.2 had a new difficult raid, so I was content with that. Keep hoping that the sky pirates content is as good as you are trumping it up to be, I will be more than happy to come back in two weeks to bump this thread when it just turns out to be instanced hunts.

Again, two dungeons vs three dungeons.
Again, two trials vs five trials.
Rehashed or not (because SR ex is a rehash) 2.1 had five trials, 3.1 has two.

I don't need to drag housing or pvp or lord of verminion or any of that other content into this argument, although I still think 2.1 had MORE misc. content. 3.1 has less end game content than most of the ARR patches just by virtue or dungeons and trials. You are simply wrong because of the mathematical fact that 2 < 3 and 2 < 5. You refuse you see that as a valid complaint, you are being willfully ignorant, your head is firmly placed in that sand bank regardless if you can see it or not.

edit: miscounted