I want to be a Ninja but..

[leoxastaroth]

Is there honestly any point in being a Ninja over say a Summoner? Let me explain; I love Ninja, I love the concept, the aesthetics and everything however the actual execution? I don't have the best gear, but my Ninja is currently geared on par with my Summoner and my Dragoon, the latter of which just makes Ninja look like a joke.

As much as I love the class, I have to take into consideration that honestly playing as a Ninja feels like I'm not there for damage but just to provide a debuff, the positionals are really blegh and so unforgiving compared to Dragoon, and it is certainly not as simple to grasp as Summoner and all of that is saying nothing of Mudra lag.

What I'm really hoping for is to hear from Ninjas with experience in proper high end content about what it is like, are you guys currently falling behind by a lot? Do you feel like you can do as much damage as a Dragoon or Monk? Do you ever feel like you only have a spot in your static because of your debuff and goad?

[Sleigh]

In a good group you will be contributing a terribly large amount (inb4 people erroneously come in and say it's 1.6% raid boost - it's a bit more than that) with Trick Attack, close to 3% in practice. If everyone's pulling their weight it's massive, not to mention its ability in turning DPS checks into nothing. Your personal damage will be a small bit below DRG, a bit above SMN (depending on Foe's), but Trick Attack is enough to compensate. Then you've got the other utility tools like Shade, Goad, and every once in a while Dancing Edge.

Positional wise, it's not bad. You aren't ruined if you miss an AC or AE, just 60 and 80 potency lost respectively, not the end of the world if you can't get to your spot for some reason. You only do positionals once every 3-6 attacks anyway, and if you fail, turn your AE into a DE and do an AC/AE in its place next time. Only Trick Attack is unjustly strict, and I wouldn't mind if the effect was taken off the positional requirement list (can keep the potency loss).

Basically, NIN is a team player class. You're usually not going to top the charts, in general you'll be within 90-95% of the top DPS in your group, but you'll be providing enough of a boost that if you look at what you as a NIN contributes, you're a damn strong class. If they fix Mudra lag, and possibly give some TP adjustments so it's not so draining on your MCH/BRD to play TP restoration, the class will more or less be perfect.

[zcrash970]

Well as long as you don't have severe mundra lag, you'll do more single target dps than a smn. Also nin has much better ultilty than a smn. Battle raise, super virus, and E4E is great and all but Goad, Smokeball, Trick Attack, and the other aggro modifier (forgot its name from the moment) are much better.
Compare to the other melee dps, nin is the weakest but better ultility.

Honestly, it comes down to what you enjoy playing the most as.

[Arkenne]

Do not forget that of the 3 melees, NIN is the only one that goes fullpower from the get-go, while the other 2 have to build up.
This makes them remarkably friendlier to enviroments where constant target switching is a thing and loses less DPS due to mistakes or disconects.

[Jim_Berry]

Do not forget that of the 3 melees, NIN is the only one that goes fullpower from the get-go, while the other 2 have to build up.
This makes them remarkably friendlier to enviroments where constant target switching is a thing and loses less DPS due to mistakes or disconects.

So true. The only bad thing about it is, you HAVE to stay on it. The moment you slack, it's touch playing catch up, especially if there's no WAR or another NIN using Dancing Edge in the group.

[Zyst]

If you look at the damage logs of the top players in the world NIN is definitely going to be behind Monk and Dragoon in pure DPS.

And you are going to be miles behind, as in as much as 3 times less damage than a Summoner doing AoE damage.

You need to come to terms with this, or you are not gonna have a good time with the class. We provide an amazing amount of utility to any team, any loss (Which really isn't a big loss regardless) we cause usually compensated by our utility in clutch dps checks, doppelganger helping establish aggro on a tank, buffing not only your own damage but also DRK and Paladin by 10%, helping your off tank stay as the off tank with Smoke screen, and so much more!

Yes, your dps numbers are not the highest, and they probably never will be. Who cares? Not to mention you are making a big assumption of "Same skill level", which usually isn't the case. And trust me, a very good NIN will out damage a good monk/drg.

Cont..

[Zyst]

Cont..

Also addressing your quote:

the positionals are really blegh and so unforgiving compared to Dragoon

At level 60 you will only use Aeolian in extremely rare situations. Like extremely rare. Armor Crush is just a slight dps loss when you fumble the positional and still gives the Huton refresh benefit regardless of which side you hit, with Trick attack being the only huge dps loss when you fumble it, but fumbling it is extremely rare, as it's a oGCD so you can just keep doing your normal rotation while you get into position calmly.

To repeat myself. Assuming you have the same gear, and the same skill level: You are going to do less damage than monks and dragoons. If you are not okay with this damage loss being traded for utility this probably isn't the job for you, however, if it is then you will find an amazing job that is truckloads of fun and does incredibly competent damage.

[kazeandi]

Cont..

does incredibly competent damage.

What's "incompetent damage"?

[Calypsx]

What's "incompetent damage"?

Paladin...

[Zyst]

What's "incompetent damage"?

I didn't define competence in the first place.

First lets establish that competence is relative. In a team where everyone is exclusively auto attacking a person spamming a single skill is a golden god.

Second: Let us assume competence is the highest possible skill level for your current highest content. For instance, the hardest content I have cleared is Ravana Extreme, and weekly clears of normal alex. So I'm at a relatively casual level. The highest skill cap that is seen in the content I do is generally different from the highest skill cap that currently exists in the game (Alex Savage) This second concept is important. It is like "Grading in a curve", where the person with the highest test result defines the maximum score available in a school test.

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