Bard or Machanist?

[Ercapote]

for ranged dps ...the only answer is SMN ....

that's a caster buddy

[AniCelestine]

I'm not sure about the math of physical def down with hyper charge with the normal 1mch 2 melee 2 tanks vs Foe's and 1 healer 1 caster(cause brd doesn't benefit from it and generally one of the 2 healer is normally healing. But I'd say the mentality with brd vs mch comes from what party set up you run with. Is your group in the bleeding edge of content going for world first. Does your healer not have accuracy melded accessories.

Personally think that for WF groups with healer(s) with melded accessories and the 2x melee set ups mch would be better with their dmg reductions whereas brd is there to compensate for accuracy problems with healers (rain of death).

As for which one is easier to play. Personally bard is easier to play cause of the simpler rotation and since I'm used to casters so that 1,5sec casting isn't issue with me. Mch is harder to maximise imo, you could compare smn and blm in 2.x to mch and brd. Mch harder maximizing and easier to dps + move (procs) whereas brd is easier but allows less movement to get max dps.

TL;DR Brd is utility, dps vs movement and difficulty of rotation vice more like blm was in 2.x and mch is more like smn was with same points. If healer(s) have accuracy accessories (no need for RoD) and 2x melee in party I'd say mch is better choise. Else go with bard (RoD is really OP if healers dps and don't have accuracy accessories) and if there's 2 casters 1 melee.

Just my point of view.

[Velhart]

Best to play whichever you prefer, guns or bows. Both jobs have their advantages and disadvantages. You will not have trouble finding groups on either or. Probably be in your best interest to level both since they share the same gear (besides AF) and pretty much go under the same stat priorities for the most part. I am gearing up both, done getting eso's for MCH, now getting remaining AF and got the bow for BRD. I like to think of it as wanting to be an overall efficient support DPS.

[Valoris]

Bear the following in mind : I do not raid, instead I use the duty finder for instances and I solo a lot.

I have a lev.60 Bard at ilev.200 (except for 3 items of jewelry) and currently my MCH is lev.55. So far I find I prefer the MCH to the BRD because so far I find the gameplay is a lot smoother. It looks like MCH is a lot more "work" but I am enjoying it a whole lot better than my BRD. The only thing my BRD does better is kiting mobs.

Bard feels "clunky" and I am not enjoying the experience. I want my old Bard back not the current abomination.


I also have a lev.60 Ninja (ilev.180) and a lev.60 Dragoon (ilev.180). So far, MCH is it for me, unless they fix Bard it probably will be my new main.

[UlricCraft]

Bards:

• Do slightly more Multi-Target(1) DPS in prolonged fights.(2)
• Damage is sourced from maintaining DoTs, ogcd proc and 1 button.
• Have to cast MP/TP regeneration abilities centred on BRD.
• Foes Requiem buffs magical damage by 10%. (2 Healer, 1 Mage)
• Battle Voice can double MP/TP regen freely with no DPS loss.(Aside from the norm)
• Can Cross-Class Mantra & Second Wind.
  • 10s Bind - 40s CD
  • 1s Silence - 30s CD
  • 10% Evasion Down on enemy

Machinists:

• Best Burst DPS - Lowest overall DPS(3)
• Damage is sourced through 3-hit combo with unique proc system.
• Stronger & more flexible AoE damage.(4)
• MP/TP Regen is ogcd and can be moved to specific locations.
• Hypercharge buffs physical damage 5% (2 tanks, 2 melee, 1 ranged)
• Hypercharge buffs magical damage 5% (2 healer, 1 mage)
• Cannot boost MP/TP regen as Hypercharge is crucial for DPS.
• Cannot Cross-Class any worthwhile defensive cooldowns and has no self-healing.
  • 12s Bind - 20s CD
  • 2s Silence - 25s CD
  • 2s Stun - 25s CD
  • 12s Heavy - 20s
  • Knockback - 30s
  • 10s -5% Magical or Physical damage - 90s

Summary

• Bards do more damage in most end-game fights, for whatever reason, they just do. This difference ranges from an unnoticeable 25 DPS to several hundred. (The next point might give insight into why)
• Bards are played almost three times as much in end-game content.
• Bards are easier to play and require less focus on strict rotation and cooldown alignment. (Hardest class, lowest damage? TY SE?)
• Machinists aren't trash. They're viable and extremely useful in a lot of cases. If you need something dead in 15s, they can do it better than most.
• Machinist utility is undoubtedly greater in almost every aspect (except mp/tp regen once or twice a fight)
• 5% physical damage with a standard party of 5 physical damage dealers is stronger than 10% on 2 magical casters. Even if your personal numbers are lower, consider how much you're boosting team DPS.
• Their single-target parses are pretty similar. Like, <35 total DPS difference most of the time.

(1) Venomous Bite + Windbite = 18s, applied to a maximum of 3 targets you can juggle your two strongest skills with Iron Jaws. MCH can't achieve these potencies without using AOE rotations. When you've got two bosses (A1S) double-DOTting results in amazing damage.
(2) BRD solo damage is predominantly higher due to the way Wildfire and cooldowns align in actual fights, Bards aren't restricted to unleash their full potential 90% of the time.
(3) Hardest class to play? Lowest potencies? Not played often enough? Too much utility & party buffing capability? Statistically they are the weakest and it's just an unfortunate truth.
(4) Bishop Turret = 600 potency/30s that can be repositioned + 120 Grenado vs Flaming Arrow 350 potency/30s that can't be moved + 110 Quick Nook. MCH can also Hypercharge for 780/30s.

[RiceisNice]

The thread is a month old since the last response, but eh...

Machinist utility is undoubtedly greater in almost every aspect (except mp/tp regen once or twice a fight)

Their regens are much more flexibile for inbetween phasing. Only a couple of fights actually cater to this nich though (thordan EX comes to mind). It also does not affect the MCH's damage directly, so their rotation can continue as normal versus a BRD with DoTs

Hypercharge buffs magical damage 5% (2 healer, 1 mage)

Direct comparison to foe aside, also keep in mind that this is also lowering the potency of your turret from 160 to 120 for the duration of hypercharge. . For the most part as far as damage is concerned, hyperchage is buffing your turet's dps, with the debuff as a secondary bonus.

5% physical damage with a standard party of 5 physical damage dealers is stronger than 10% on 2 magical casters. Even if your personal numbers are lower, consider how much you're boosting team DPS.

Don't forget that foe requiem has a much much longer uptime than hypercharge ever will. And top that off with hyper charge being a damage cooldown on top of a defensive cooldown, trying to use one for the other will either detriment your dps or lose the option of having burst mana regen.

Other than that, what needed to be said as been said. MCH and BRD are similar to each other in every regard; in the roles they play, their performance (with some variance), and handling outside of cooldowns. At this point, you're much better off picking the one that you want to play as. People say that MCH is more work for the same result (which is true when it comes to the burst periods), but as someone who full time mained bard, I welcome this and prefer MCH over BRD since they really have not changed much as far as playstyle/gameplay is concerned from 2.0.

[Underdog2204]

Snip

If I could like the post 1000 times I would.

[Myon88]

BRD
"Battle Voice can double MP/TP regen freely with no DPS loss.(Aside from the norm)"
MCH
"Cannot boost MP/TP regen as Hypercharge is crucial for DPS."

I'm curious about the disparity here, because I was under the impression BV coupled with Foes was basically the biggest selling point of the BRD. Hypercharge's piddly 5% vulnerability is too crucial to DPS to use on regen, but BV buffing Foes from 10% to 20% isn't?

[jssanderson747]

I'm curious about the disparity here

A bard guide I use did some of the math, I'll just paste the gist of it:

" Comparing both of their "DPS" boosts in 2x Melee and 2x Mage party comps:
(.78%/.57%)MCH - 2x Melee Group - .78% | 1x Melee - .57% (Math Below)
(1.2%/2.16%)BRD - 1x Mage Group - 1.2% | 2x Mage - 2.16% (Math Below) (Do note that results may vary depending on if a Brd can consistenly play Foe. Also Caster dps deal slightly lower dps than melees)
(1.15%/2.07%)BRD with only 2x BV Foes - 1.15% / 2.07% Respectively "

The difference is fairly slight, if a little in favor of bard because bv is stronger than hypercharge

[RiceisNice]

I'm curious about the disparity here, because I was under the impression BV coupled with Foes was basically the biggest selling point of the BRD. Hypercharge's piddly 5% vulnerability is too crucial to DPS to use on regen, but BV buffing Foes from 10% to 20% isn't?

My BRD (or BRDs in general) have always ben valued for foe requiem, not necessarily BV + foe. Hypercharge is also integral to MCH's personal dps, while battle voice isn't to BRD, and that hypercharge itself is also the damage vulnerability debuff.

You're comparing the loss of a 5% physical debuff and 160 potency hits versus doubled regen to a 20% foe req versus double regen, when the latter can still do foe req for 10% without BV (and as mentioned before, the 5% vulnerability debuff is tied to hypercharge)