Light, Darkness, Balence, Gravitation

[Fenral]

Eldibus is a problem. He's an Ascian, but out of all of them, he's never attacked us except in self-defense. That, and he says he's not our enemy while also openly being an emissary of the dark. My guess is that he's the last holdover from whatever system was in place before the current cycle of Astral/Umbral eras, as the universe, if not the world, is strongly implied to have existed before then.

If we could just get him out of those robes (not like that, though his entirely-too-young voice has me curious) and have a proper talk without waving our opposing agendas around, I fell like we could make some serious headway towards a mutually beneficial arrangement. That'll never happen of course, and if the WoD turns out to be a way for him to get around not attacking us directly, well, things will probably get worse from here out.

[Kuwagami]

Eldibus is a problem. He's an Ascian, but out of all of them, he's never attacked us except in self-defense. That, and he says he's not our enemy while also openly being an emissary of the dark. My guess is that he's the last holdover from whatever system was in place before the current cycle of Astral/Umbral eras, as the universe, if not the world, is strongly implied to have existed before then.

Gonna feature some major Golden Sun spoilers, so that will be in the magic box below

The Wise One : he talks big about protecting the world. And as he is the only one you can trust as he was the first one to really talk to the group about what is going on, Isaac and Garret decided to follow his orders and go stop the big baddies's plans to change the world. Boom, go save the world buds!

Meanwhile, Menardi and Saturos are the perfect villains. They do bad stuff (or at least, you believe they do, and the Wise One comforted this idea), and you must stop them at all cost. You go as far as to kill them, because they just desperately wanted to achieve their dream...

Which was in fact, to save the world. Boom, surprise ! YOU were the bad guy, letting the world destroy itself, just because some random floating stone told you so. But you learned, and a somewhat neutral force (Alex), was teaching you during all that time through enigmatic shit that you'd better go and help the goal of the poor lads you just slain, even though you may do it in a more peaceful way.

Meanwhile, an other party of your former friends appear and follow the path of the people you just slain, and oppose your group. Though you end up joining them because you were tricked by the floating rock and fuck it, you'll save the world for real.

Eventually, as you are close to save the world, the big floating stone comes back and is pissed of, because he doesn't want you to save the world. He wants you to continue living in a decaying world JUST BECAUSE SHUT YOUR TRAP KIDS YOU KNOW NOTHING! So he attacks you, but using a fucking twisted mental trick using your parents. Kill your parents to save the world, or die without living up to your goals, that's how you do it.

mofo rock is defeated, you saved the world. Really ? It appears the floating rock knew some other things, and Alex too. You saving the world by restoring balance just gave the bastard god-like power. Aaaaand, you're screwed again.

End of the spoilers as I haven't done GS3 yet, so I can't comment on the end of the scenario.



Nevertheless, doesn't it sound similar ?

Big floating crystal (Hydaelyn), telling you to fight baddies (booh bad ascians), who just appeared to to bad things (they're not exactly willing to deal with consequences. They do stuff and whatever happens after isn't their problem as long as they progress towards their goal). So you go and fight, and go as far as killing 2 of them. Meanwhile, an other force preaching about balance appears (Elidibus), and uses convoluted sentences to try to tell you something about the bigger plan. Or he might just be trolling you. Who knows ?

And now, an other group with (most likely) the same goal than the ascians just made its appearance.

Will we join our power with the WoD ? Will we go and fight Hydaelyn herself at some point, because her way isn't saving the world but slowly killing it in fear the balance might be abused ? Will Elidibus use that occasion to screw us over and gain super powers (blah blah blah, whatever, we'll kill you in the end buddy) ?

Man, I thought game scenarios were under copyright....

You also left out something in regards to Golden Sun's ending.

The Wise One asked Isaac to put the Mars Star back where it was, and then had him take it out again. This gave Isaac some of the Golden Sun's power way before the main story kicks off, which also meant Alex could not achieve full power. The Wise One tricking the heroes wasn't so much of a trick, but a test to see if the kids really do believe what they were fighting in and if they would accept the responsibilities that would come with it. That is why he turned the heroes' parents into a three headed dragon and it was nearly slain by its own kids. Isaac knew what had to be done, even if it meant nearly killing his parents to save the world.

oh right, I had forgotten that part. Been so many years X_X

Though it doesn't change (yet) the fact that FFxiv's scenario has a lot in common with the GS series. Maybe that's a common thing that I somehow missed in most J-RPGs, but there are really too many similarities to just call it "lucky pick" imo

[MilesSaintboroguh]

You also left out something in regards to Golden Sun's ending.

The Wise One asked Isaac to put the Mars Star back where it was, and then had him take it out again. This gave Isaac some of the Golden Sun's power way before the main story kicks off, which also meant Alex could not achieve full power. The Wise One tricking the heroes wasn't so much of a trick, but a test to see if the kids really do believe what they were fighting in and if they would accept the responsibilities that would come with it. That is why he turned the heroes' parents into a three headed dragon and it was nearly slain by its own kids. Isaac knew what had to be done, even if it meant nearly killing his parents to save the world.

[Mykaelus]

Regarding Light and Darkness, FFXIV shares a lot with FFXI, so I would not be surprised if this is treated similarly.

HUGE FFXI SPOILERS BELOW...


.... SERIOUSLY, DON'T READ IT IF YOU EVER WANT TO PLAY FFXI

.... IT'S COMING OUT ON MOBILE SOON, DID YOU KNOW?

...

In XI, the story goes that an ancient race grew bold enough to try and build a door to the heavens. The Twilight God Promathia struck them down, leaving ruin in his wake. The Goddess Altana saw this destruction and wept five tears, which became the five races of Vana'diel. In response, Promathia created the beastmen races to war with Altana's children, so they would never thing to build towards heaven again.

HOWEVER, you discover through playing FFXI that this is all a misinterpretation. Promathia was not the god of evil, but the god of nothingness. It was in his nature to pursue the entropy of the universe, including destroying himself. The goddess Altana, the embodiment of creation, couldn't bear to see ANYTHING in existence to be destroyed, and rather than allow Promathia to fade away, against his will she trapped bits of his essence in living vessels... thus creating the five races.

... SPOILERS END ...

So for FFXIV, I'm thinking Hydaelyn as the embodiment of Light is being set up similarly to FFXI in opposition to Zodiark. Unlike FFXI's interpretation though where Light was basically infinite, I think the act of creation has a cost to Hydaelyn. Consider that whenever we see her crystal, there is dust and crystal bits orbiting it. Almost as if parts have been broken off to be used. Compare that to the crystal in the opening movie of FFXI, which is one single piece. I suppose you could say it was just an aesthetic choice, but crystals being broken pops up a lot in FFXIV. Crafting takes SHARDS, rather than just crystals in FFXI. Aetherytes are always in multiple pieces. Even in the new Lords of Verminion, the goal is to break the crystals.

It's almost as if FFXIV equates Light with individuality. Consider that Lahabrea and Igeyorhm claim to show us "the true power of the Echo" before fusing together into one being. Does that mean they have the Echo? And then the talk of Rejoinings. If Light is individuality, Dark would be unity.

What is a Primal but the union of people's faith and aether?

What if the Echo is actually the gift of Zodiark? People think it is the gift of Hydaelyn because Hydaelyn gives the Blessing of Light to people with the Echo. But what if Hydaelyn is just trying to co-opt or temper those with Zodiark's blessing?

That's not to say the Dark is actually the "good guy," just that it is an equal and opposite force... trying to unify everyone, just as darkness obscures boundaries. Whereas the Light reveals and defines boundaries.

[Fenral]

It's almost as if FFXIV equates Light with individuality. Consider that Lahabrea and Igeyorhm claim to show us "the true power of the Echo" before fusing together into one being. Does that mean they have the Echo? And then the talk of Rejoinings. If Light is individuality, Dark would be unity.

Certainly well-reasoned, but for the sake of argument, let me posit the reverse. Advance warning that this will sound a lot like heresy against every RPG plot ever:

The Light in FFXIV so far seems to be selflessness, putting others before yourself, a "greater good" that rejects individuality for the benefit of the faceless many. Treating a friend to lunch is the mild form. Altruistic suicide is the extreme. Hydaelin, of course, is the master of this, constantly giving of herself in spite of her slightly more important purpose that seems to be giving the world itself form. If she gives up all of herself, then she will die and our world with her, and that will be that.

Assuming the above is light, "Dark" would be selfishness, individuality, and putting the good of the self before the many. Taking from others in order to build up and sustain one's identity as an individual. Put mildly, you have to eat to live, and there's no such thing as a free lunch. Taken to the extreme, you have Nidhogg, who asserts his "will" over most of the Dravanian Horde. Zodiark's followers seek the Rejoining, taking of the world and Hydaelin to the benefit of Zodiark. It's still a sort of unity, but one born from the assertion of one individual over many.

Logically speaking, neither of these can exist without the other. An entirely selfless world lacks the basic distinction that makes "giving" possible, while a fully-asserted individual has acquired everything and can thus no longer "take." Either end result is essentially the same: everything returns to nothingness. Perfect equilibrium in this case is also probably a terrible idea, but likely also impossible.

My total guess is that the Ascians, or Lahabrea's camp at least, are acting in a way that seeks to provoke Hydaelin's self-sacrifice, as this allows them to claim more of [fill in the blank] for Zodiark, strengthening their master. We don't have enough info to know what fills in the blank yet.

(If this isn't what's actually going on, I find in myself the urge to use this for a story later... )

[Kallera]

It could be that elidibus' mention of a need to restore balance is more his own opinion, and not something that is shared by either hydelyn or zodiark, as at least members from both sides (Hydelyn herself, and Lahabrea with the Ultima Weapon) has stated to vie for total dominance as the only method of peace.

[Frederick22]

Well the funny this is that the Echo acts like the force, 2 sides of the same thing.

[Kaiser-Ace]

I've always viewed Aether as "The Force" because it is manipulated for benevolent, Malevolent, and even purely mundain tasks and can be used for evil just as, if not more easily, than for good.

Hydaelyn representing "The Light Side" and Zodiark representing "The Dark Side" with The warriors of Light being Hydaelyn's Jedi and The Ascians being Zodiark's Sith.

True Ballence can only exist when both are deadocked and neither are gaining ground. The Warriors of Light and Ascians have been seemingly fighting for Eons now with each gunning for the edge. Only now things are getting serious, Ascians are DIEING forcing the Dark to call for reinforents.

I think it'll eventually show Elidibus is well aware of his role and is trying to inform us of ours. We seek to END the conflict but ballence might only be possible so long as our battle's continue. What happens if either side gains a decisive victory? My guess, nothing good.

[Kallera]

We need a solid example of the light getting out of hand. And I think Derplander may be the one with it, as no one other than Urianger is going to take Elidibus at mask value.

[myahele]

The whole "in the beginning there was darkness ... then the light crystal came to be and brought forth life and light to the realm" thing seems to be the basic trope of the many, especially older FF games. Actually, many real life myths, too.

I wonder if that's how the world was like when Zodiark ruled the realm? Before Hydaelyn "banished" him with her light.