Wanderer’s Minuet, Gauss Barrel and Positive Gameplay Additions

[XiXiQ]

Ironic for me now, but I mained both BLM and BRD. The reason I did that was the difference in the movement mechanics. Pity now I have to play them both like a BLM.

I'm not a fan of either enochian or WM, for different reasons. Enochian is just plain clunky, the AF duration is too short - in fact, I swear most bosses are actually tuned to set off some mechanic that goes off one second before/after you get to use fireIV. Then either they will interrupt it, or you have to by moving or running about for exactly 6 seconds. OR the boss just vanishes for 20 seconds so you can lose your stacks and still have to wait out the CDs. You can't even smoothly spell queue ice/fire IV, it's greyed out until the animation finishes on the ice/fire3 you had to cast to get into umbral. and the absolute worst part? The cast interruption when the umbral timer happens to run out a split second before the cast goes off. BLM now (even though I still main it) isn't that much fun anymore, it's just one frustration after the other.

WM is just the absolute anathema of what a bard was, and that's what disappoints me most about it.

[Velhart]

snip

Definitely would of been beneficial if SE went out of their way to make you feel powerful with the new stance and make it more welcoming. Rather it be during the quest or other means. It feels like a crutch when it is introduced to you for the first time. Giving that sense of power will make someone go "Wow I really want to keep this stance on." At best the stance at lv.52 causes confusion for most. Like I said, GB/WM I believe are great ideas and I love how it is set up on MCH, but SE just threw it at people and told them you got to do it this way now.

[Alahra]

Like I said, GB/WM I believe are great ideas and I love how it is set up on MCH, but SE just threw it at people and told them you got to do it this way now.

I had to spend a couple hours on the training dummy when I got Gauss Barrel, getting used to the timing. I nearly left the class at level 52, I was so frustrated by the jarring shift.

[RiceisNice]

You misunderstood. I'll take Enochian as an example.

Enochian is punishing in a sense that you don't get any extra reward for successfully managing it.
When you were doing your 2.0 BLM rotation, getting a proc was a reward in itself. Not only it was a DPS increase, but it also allowed you to move while still getting a spell thrown at your enemy. Since it was based on RNG, it wasn't really part of your main rotation. It also felt great on a gameplay feedback level.

Now you see, this is where perspective comes into mind, but the word "punishing" still needs to be used more loosely. Unless you're doing the likes of alexander savage, you have no need to do your 3.0 rotations to pin point accuracy. I happen to dislike classes that have only procs as their factor in rotations, it gets boring and ultimately repetitive if I'm subconsciously spamming fire Is.

Enochian doesn't bring any mechanic of the sort. Being able to cast Fire IV isn't a reward, it's a part of your new rotation and not being able to cast it is a DPS loss. I mean, of course Enochian isn't punishing for giving you access to these skills and 5% bonus damage... It's punishing in a way that Greased Lightning is: let the counter tick until it vanishes and you are completly screwed. All your plays from that point will only be tries to make up for that mistake.

Greased Lightning is entirely different from enochian in the sense that it is maintained from attacking. The only way you can possible lose it is if you stop attacking entirely or somehow not get in your third hits. No monk ever has to make a conscious decision to build/maintain GL stacks because it is reoccuring and natural. If they had lost it due to boss mechanics, it's the same for practically every other job, except theirs don't require a cooldown behind it and foresight of the fight

Whether or not you consider it to be a punishment or a reward for successfully utilization enochian, every class has this as a factor. Even SMN with DWT because you're otherwise not using it to it's fullest extent of you don't time it with tri-disaster. And while we're on that, why does DWT feel like a reward if this is supposed to be part of their 3.0 rotation? Are you getting punished for not utilizing it at all or utilizing it ineffectively (which would then be in the same vein as getting off only one enochian refresh and having a downtime of 5-10 seconds).

This very notion wasn't a part of the job before Heavensward. You had no "losing state". Now, not only you do have a losing state, but you don't have a winning one, just a "regular rotation" one where you are expected to use Enochian and keeping it up because without these Fire IV, your spot as a DPS in the team isn't justified anymore.

This is what I meant when I used the term "punishing".
These new rotations don't increase your DPS per se, they are the base of your new rotation. Your job is now balanced around these new skills and the DPS you do is accounting these abilities. In short: you don't "win" anything by using them, it's your baseline... but not using them or failing at doing so result in a DPS loss, a punishment.

Same deal with every other job as I've mentioned above, including summoner with using DWT.

Minuet, in it's core mechanic, is different from Enochian since you don't have a death timer ticking, but the very notion of being rewarded with an increased feeling of power isn't there.
People don't enjoy pressing their Minuet shortcut, they do it because they have to in order to maximise their DPS. I personnal liked the proc based gameplay of BLM, but now it's gone and I have to deal with Enochian and keep it up at all cost or I'm done for.

Minuet imo is a completely different circumstance from enochian. WMas it is retro-actively messes with your job that it's own traits don't function. This is coming from my perspective to why I hate WM (it's not difficult, but implemented poorly and doesn't work well,) compared to enochian that works rather well with the astral/umbral mechanic of BLM and still keeps their procs relevant and actually function better (since you don't consectutively cast fire Is and risk overlapping)

I had to spend a couple hours on the training dummy when I got Gauss Barrel, getting used to the timing. I nearly left the class at level 52, I was so frustrated by the jarring shift.

It's not all that different from BRD other than the fact you have to be re-active to your procs since you can actually get them. And the whole 1 oGCD per GCD thing.

[Velhart]

snip

I got use to it quick on MCH. For BRD, it was really awkward and felt like I had to learn the job over again. Most likely because I knew how BRD played for a long time before the change. MCH was new so anything new thrown at me I took it in better.

The leveling process though, I got both MCH and BRD to 60 before they did the change to WM/GB. So I had them off while leveling.

MCH are in a good spot for the most part with how it is set up, maybe some QoL changes, but nothing major needed. BRD is the job that could use a real overhaul on it's abilities and how it works with WM. At best it feels clunky and SE needs to find a way to make it feel more natural instead of tacked on. BRD is by no means inferior or superior to MCH DPS wise, but MCH is definitely the more fun job. I wouldn't mind switching back to BRD however if they made some good changes to it.

I feel like a broken record, I have said this more times than I should.

[RiceisNice]

I got use to it quick on MCH. For BRD, it was really awkward and felt like I had to learn the job over again. Most likely because I knew how BRD played for a long time before the change. MCH was new so anything new thrown at me I took it in better.

The leveling process though, I got both MCH and BRD to 60 before they did the change to WM/GB. So I had them off while leveling.
MCH are in a good spot for the most part with how it is set up, maybe some QoL changes, but nothing major needed. BRD is the job that could use a real overhaul on it's abilities and how it works with WM. At best it feels clunky and SE needs to find a way to make it feel more natural instead of tacked on. BRD is by no means inferior or superior to MCH DPS wise, but MCH is definitely the more fun job. I wouldn't mind switching back to BRD however if they made some good changes to it.

I feel like a broken record, I have said this more times than I should.

You and me both. I could not tolerate leveling BRD after MCH until 3.05 made changes to WM/GB. It was an absolute joke that it was still a dps loss at level 60 on average. And even before that I just had it off for the entire leveling experience, having no access to new skills from 52 and onward. It wasn't too much of a biggie on MCH considering I wanted to level that up first instead of BRD, but ugh.

At this point I'd just like for them to play differently and function properly so I can actually make a choice of "do I want to play BRD or MCH tonight"

[Dante_V]

It's a net increase in dps at 60. The value of auto attacks are being inflated in the OP also. I can understand not liking the play style change but saying that it has no net positive overall is disengenious.

[Warlyx]

It's a net increase in dps at 60. The value of auto attacks are being inflated in the OP also. I can understand not liking the play style change but saying that it has no net positive overall is disengenious.

at release WM was 20%

[RiceisNice]

It's a net increase in dps at 60. The value of auto attacks are being inflated in the OP also. I can understand not liking the play style change but saying that it has no net positive overall is disengenious.

It was 20% on release. It was a damage loss until level 60 (unless it was AoE), and in the case of MCH at least, the dps gain was extremely minimal on a target dummy (2-3% minimal), and immediately a damage loss if you had to cancel a cast or delay an oGCD.

[Alahra]

It's a net increase in dps at 60. The value of auto attacks are being inflated in the OP also. I can understand not liking the play style change but saying that it has no net positive overall is disengenious.

It actually is still DPS neutral (and usually loss whenever you need to move) at 52 when you receive it which was part of my overall point about it not feeling like an improvement. I've never said it wasn't a net DPS increase at 60--it is, though I feel it's not enough of one.

It's not all that different from BRD other than the fact you have to be re-active to your procs since you can actually get them. And the whole 1 oGCD per GCD thing.

I took up MCH first, so it was my first exposure to the cast times. I was used to the timing on BRD when I got it to 52 a couple weeks back, though now that I'm 56 and juggling Empyreal Arrows and Bloodletter procs, BRD is becoming annoying in different ways. For me, MCH is mostly annoying during the opener since you need to fit in 12 or so oGCDs--once everything is on cooldown it tends to play much more smoothly over time than BRD does.