Stats And You!

[Alise]

There is absolutely no way that in 1.19a that only DEX is block rate. Pumping STR (Like +85~100 over natural STR) will improve your blocking by a large amount, even against lv.58~60s. My DEX hasn't moved an inch and I am noticing differences of up to 30-40% block rate, all other conditions equal.

If it is intended to be DEX, why? Why would they intend to have DEX do six things while STR only does one or two? Why have such low natural DEX on the only class that's intended to use a shield?

STR should be blocking rate, VIT should be parry, and DEX should be evade.

Can we get a comment on what makes our shields mitigate more damage when we do manage to block (outside of the shield stat itself and the +5 from sentinel's trousers)? Non-deflection-buffed blocks are just pitiful. (Side-question: Are they ever going to fix Aegis Boon not showing the monster's attack animation when we block with it up? It has never, ever worked right.)

Thanks Bayohne.

It is easily seen the intention of these stat is the change to make them worth something for everybody. Dev team not like people to build class by focus just 1-2 attribute so they want people to spread point more or decrease some part to increase some part. STR is for doing damage! so it is favor stat to people eventho it only do one thing. it is the most expensive.

Look at materia chart, that is also confirm that SE want people to spread attribute out.

[Stufoo]

Dev team not like people to build class by focus just 1-2 attribute so they want people to spread point more or decrease some part to increase some part. STR is for doing damage! so it is favor stat to people eventho it only do one thing. it is the most expensive.

Oh okay, so the dev team doesn't like people to build classes that focus on just one or two attributes, but they give DEX six beneficial effects and STR only one. Makes perfect sense to you I'm sure.

How does changing STR to only affecting attack power make it more useful for anyone? It already does that somewhat, you're actually taking the additional benefit of STR away and putting it on DEX. Why would you use anything but VIT/DEX in this new setting? It's just like the VIT/STR setting we have now but just switching the useless stat around, and your "spread point more" logic is meaningless. Players are going to max their stats to perfect the role they want to play no matter how bad you mess up what each one benefits.

The point still stands that even if they make DEX govern blocking that GLA will become even worse at it, it's our second lowest stat and we have no DEX gear at all, stat merits and the new jewelry won't be able to push us from 190 to what we need to satisfactorily mitigate stronghold monsters, much less HNMs.

STR for blocking (instead of VIT or DEX) makes sense, it alleviates the issue of the dedicated tank class (GLA) from stacking only VIT, since they also use it for physical defense and HP, and since they aren't a heavy damage dealing class, the extra STR benefits them only slightly in doing more damage output for keeping hate.

VIT for parrying makes sense because it forces a marauder tank to focus on it, instead of only STR or DEX, since they are a heavy damage dealing class and would benefit too greatly from having those be the only stats they need.

DEX for evasion would help PGL out a bit because they are only an off-tank with damage dealing focused on multiple, low damage hits, where criticals will come into effect more often (and they get blindside), so having DEX be their focused stat would be useful if it did evasion and critical power.

That is how you balance out the stats that people will want to use in a physical tank role, you can't just look at DEX and say, "oh well no one uses this at the moment let's cram every mitigation proc on this one stat" because then everyone will just move from the current stat to the new one. How can you even imagine that's a good idea while also saying what you've said above?

Also, STR is garbage for doing damage, attack power and critical power are much more effective.

[Rydin]

Oh okay, so the dev team doesn't like people to build classes that focus on just one or two attributes, but they give DEX six beneficial effects and STR only one. Makes perfect sense to you I'm sure.

How does changing STR to only affecting attack power make it more useful for anyone? It already does that somewhat, you're actually taking the additional benefit of STR away and putting it on DEX. Why would you use anything but VIT/DEX in this new setting? It's just like the VIT/STR setting we have now but just switching the useless stat around, and your "spread point more" logic is meaningless. Players are going to max their stats to perfect the role they want to play no matter how bad you mess up what each one benefits.

I kind of agree with what they were going for.... there are more than 2 useful stats
Glad needs:
VIT for HP
VIT for defense
DEX for Evade
DEX for Block Rate
STR for amount of damage blocked
STR for damage dealt (Which theoretically generates the most hate)
PIE for magic evasion, which for a tank vs a primal can be a big deal

on top of that, with gear and materia you'll want to boost HP, Defense, possibly enmity generation
So yea, STR still matters for Blocking....

STR for blocking (instead of VIT or DEX) makes sense, it alleviates the issue of the dedicated tank class (GLA) from stacking only VIT, since they also use it for physical defense and HP, and since they aren't a heavy damage dealing class, the extra STR benefits them only slightly in doing more damage output for keeping hate.

I think we are looking at Blocking on an "All damage vs zero damage" basis
But DEX determines how often I block, and STR determines how much I block for, whether that is all damage or just partial damage.

The point still stands that even if they make DEX govern blocking that GLA will become even worse at it, it's our second lowest stat and we have no DEX gear at all, stat merits and the new jewelry won't be able to push us from 190 to what we need to satisfactorily mitigate stronghold monsters, much less HNMs.

You can't unequivocally say that without knowing the formula...
For the purpose of this discussion, Glad Dex is just an arbitrary number. The formula could be adjusted so that 200 DEX is an insanely high block rate and scales down from there... It could be made so that 100000000 dex is a perfect block rate and scales down from there. Saying that it shouldn't be based off of Dex because we only have 190 dex points is a moot point without knowing the formula.

For instance...
Say I am the developer of this game, and I want the best possible block rate vs Ifrit to be 25% with a fully geared Glad
(I know it's not nearly that high, I'm just giving an example)
I can take the best block rated shield + The highest possible DEX that a Glad can have with best gear and materia....
And make the formula so THAT causes a 25% block rate on Ifrit.... and scales down from there
whether that DEX number is 100 or 100,000,000 it is all relative.

[Stufoo]

But DEX determines how often I block, and STR determines how much I block for, whether that is all damage or just partial damage.

Have you tested that, at all? Have you spent a second of your time on this or are you just posting about it? STR helps block rate at the moment, in 1.19a. I don't know that DEX doesn't because that's not how it has ever been and I'm not going to bother testing it, my STR+100 setup is giving good enough results for blocking across every monster.

Also you can't get non-partial blocks without stoneskin or deflection. It won't happen no matter how much you raise whatever stat you think helps it.

Besides, Bayohne said that STR was only attack power, he didn't say anything about it boosting your shield mitigation, which is why I asked him in my first post. The only thing he thinks he left off was physical evasion, which would be DEX.

Saying that it shouldn't be based off of Dex because we only have 190 dex points is a moot point without knowing the formula.

They can scale it however they want, they can boost GLA's DEX all they want, as long as it works. At the moment, 220 STR (natural GLA50) will get you about 5% block rate against a lv. 55 doblyn, self preservation ups this to 10% I guess. 300 STR will put you up to about 27~30% block rate against a lv. 55 doblyn. I have seen vast improvements from using high STR on every single type of monster, leves, Tarbh, Uraeus, stronghold trash and bosses, everything, and my DEX hasn't moved a single point. My assumption is that currently you'll need to have about 350 or more STR or whatever they change shield block rate to in the future to adequately mitigate an HNM caliber monster (rank 60~66).

This may all change in 1.2, especially with merits and the new jewelry stats. All of the dev posts seem like they are talking about the future anyways, even though they just redid the stat system. Still, all three mitigation techniques shouldn't be governed by the same stat.

[Rydin]

Have you tested that, at all? Have you spent a second of your time on this or are you just posting about it? STR helps block rate at the moment, in 1.19a. I don't know that DEX doesn't because that's not how it has ever been and I'm not going to bother testing it, my STR+100 setup is giving good enough results for blocking across every monster.

Also you can't get non-partial blocks without stoneskin or deflection. It won't happen no matter how much you raise whatever stat you think helps it.

Besides, Bayohne said that STR was only attack power, he didn't say anything about it boosting your shield mitigation, which is why I asked him in my first post. The only thing he thinks he left off was physical evasion, which would be DEX.

I am sure I've seen that posted since 1.19 but I can't find it or give any factual data so I will concede that point. However, he also didn't mention STR increasing your block RATE.... but here you are saying it does.... I'm wondering (and this is hypothesis only) if STR is Block amount, but the damage mitigated has to be over a certain amount to actually trigger a block.
For instance, My DEX says that I should block.
My STR stat has determined that the amount of blocked damage will be only 8%.
If the mitigated damage is less than 25%, no block occurs
In that instance, a higher STR will cause more perceived blocks.
It's just a theory, but it is plausible
And yes, I am a main glad, have been 50 in it since last nov/dec and I parse my data regularly. Extensively since 1.19

They can scale it however they want, they can boost GLA's DEX all they want, as long as it works. At the moment, 220 STR (natural GLA50) will get you about 5% block rate against a lv. 55 doblyn, self preservation ups this to 10% I guess. 300 STR will put you up to about 27~30% block rate against a lv. 55 doblyn. I have seen vast improvements from using high STR on every single type of monster, leves, Tarbh, Uraeus, stronghold trash and bosses, everything, and my DEX hasn't moved a single point. My assumption is that currently you'll need to have about 350 or more STR or whatever they change shield block rate to in the future to adequately mitigate an HNM caliber monster (rank 60~66).

We need some clarification because what you are saying is in direct contradiction to what Bayohne just said.

This may all change in 1.2, especially with merits and the new jewelry stats. All of the dev posts seem like they are talking about the future anyways, even though they just redid the stat system. Still, all three mitigation techniques shouldn't be governed by the same stat.

I don't mind it because no class can do all 3
If you could evade, parry and block all on the same class then maybe it would be better to spread it over multiple stats... but for all intents and purposes, Parry and Block have become the same thing (Being that you can't do both, not saying that they work equally well)

[Stufoo]

I don't mind it because no class can do all 3
If you could evade, parry and block all on the same class then maybe it would be better to spread it over multiple stats... but for all intents and purposes, Parry and Block have become the same thing (Being that you can't do both, not saying that they work equally well)

Evading hurts gladiator, and it makes no sense to evade in full plate. Every time you evade it is a lost phalanx, it is a lost self-heal from boon, it is lost TP bonus from outmaneuver, and it even gives less TP than deflection blocks. It should be a very low chance to evade on the plate classes outside of forced featherfoots for mitigating TP moves.

Just chiming in to share some testing by a jp player on the "DEX=block?" subject.

it's quite obvious that boosting DEX did absolutely nothing for block rate. Block rate actually decreased

Hopefully we get a dev response on how exactly they intend for these stats to work!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Rydin]

Evading hurts gladiator, and it makes no sense to evade in full plate. Every time you evade it is a lost phalanx, it is a lost self-heal from boon, it is lost TP bonus from outmaneuver, and it even gives less TP than deflection blocks. It should be a very low chance to evade on the plate classes outside of forced featherfoots for mitigating TP moves.



¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The chance to evade should be lower.. but not impossible.....

And yes... I believe it because you now because I saw it in Japanese... even more so than I believe the Dev who works for SE....
really?