Stats And You!

[Nayt]

And you know this because...? Yeah, I didn't think so.

It is, however, a popular theory.

People are testing and we'll get some stat results soon enough to cross-check

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

And you know this because...? Yeah, I didn't think so.

I know this because I've tested it. Testing on Mobs of equal level and STR vs ATK builds on Ifrit. I am still gathering information as well, but this is how it works and what the data is showing. If you don't believe me, why don't you go out there and test it yourself?

I suggest this for everyone to do. This isn't a difficult thing to figure out. It can even be eye balled and I find it surprising that people just sit around on their butts waiting for people to figure crap out for them and when they come here to kindly give you the correct information you debunk it. As if you are out there doing the testing and arn't a loser of a player.

[Frein]

I know this because I've tested it. Testing on Mobs of equal level and STR vs ATK builds on Ifrit. I am still gathering information as well, but this is how it works and what the data is showing. If you don't believe me, why don't you go out there and test it yourself?

I suggest this for everyone to do. This isn't a difficult thing to figure out. It can even be eye balled and I find it surprising that people just sit around on their butts waiting for people to figure crap out for them and when they come here to kindly give you the correct information you debunk it. As if you are out there doing the testing and arn't a loser of a player.

Your tests prove nothing (other than that STR apparently outperforms ATK on Ifrit). You only assume your findings mean what you're proposing, but you could be completely off. You don't know what the damage formula looks like and you don't know the stats of the enemies you've fought, so it's a nice hypothesis, but by no means proven.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

Your tests prove nothing (other than that STR apparently outperforms ATK on Ifrit). You only assume your findings mean what you're proposing, but you could be completely off. You don't know what the damage formula looks like and you don't know the stats of the enemies you've fought, so it's a nice hypothesis, but by no means proven.

I have the data and when it's complete I'll share it. I was trying to get a rough explanation out before finalizing. Also, it is simple to find out the VIT of the mob when your STR starts to do little to no effect against it. You can do this by slowly lowering it til you see diminishing results.

This is simple stuff. You don't need to wait for developer confirmation when you have the capacity to test it yourself. It is incredibly surprising to me how they are not able to explain their own workings of STR and Attack Power, but the community can.

[tymora]

To rephrase... "if STR > Target VIT, +DMG", if "STR < Target VIT, -DMG".

[Kaeko]

Maybe your experience of XI has been different than mine, but what I got out of it was to never trust anything SE says about their own mechanics at face value. Player testing is ultimately more accurate than anything SE is usually willing to give out. Anything the devs hand the players of XIV is a gift that still ultimately has to be verified anyways.

Also, regarding the idea that people in XI didn't have a good understanding of the damage formula, I would disagree. While it was never completely flushed out down to decimals and rounding error, it was pretty close. I remember participating in a number of theoretical arguments regarding builds that could be conducted completely with math based on community derived formulas. The melee damage formula for XI is clearly spelled out on the BG wiki as well.

The game is still in its infancy and rapidly changing. To expect a full understanding 3 weeks after a major patch is unreasonable in my opinion. This comes down to community driven research. When the game's population ideally rises to a more acceptable level, maybe enough players interested in exploring the formulas will come together and collectively put in the work necessary to figure it out sufficiently. For now, while you may not like the limited information being provided by both devs and players, that may be all the community will have access to for awhile. Considering the game's mechanics are likely to change at least once more in the near future, I think it's reasonable to accept this.

[Deus]

The game is still in its infancy and rapidly changing. To expect a full understanding 3 weeks after a major patch is unreasonable in my opinion. This comes down to community driven research. When the game's population ideally rises to a more acceptable level, maybe enough players interested in exploring the formulas will come together and collectively put in the work necessary to figure it out sufficiently. For now, while you may not like the limited information being provided by both devs and players, that may be all the community will have access to for awhile. Considering the game's mechanics are likely to change at least once more in the near future, I think it's reasonable to accept this.

A valid standpoint, however, SE's philosophy has changed to survive this new generation, as has the entire MMO landscape and fanbase since FFXI.

Of course we will be patient for the Devs to come forward at the most responsible time. It's true the game is not yet finished, but the purpose of this forum is for the community to give their opinion on what we need from the Devs. We play the game every day and know best the impact these changes are making. I feel now is the best time to present this argument to the Dev team so they do not make the mistake of keeping us in the dark and failing to keep up with this generation as they have in the past.

It's true that parsing and community validation will always be necessary regardless of what Square tells us. But for this game to be accessible to everyone we need a better understanding of the game's parameters; an official one.

I feel that Yoshi identifies with this philosophy and this statement he made last March strikes at the heart of the matter.

FFXIVCore Exclusive Naoki Yoshida Interview - FFXIVCore.com - Final Fantasy XIV Fansite

On the topic of monster attribute changes and possibly player attribute changes, can you go more into detail on this? A lot of players feel everything is still a bit out of whack when it comes to the current attributes like dex barely affecting Accuracy or Shell barely reducing an Imps Blizzard damage.

One of the reasons that you have some of the things not affecting something at all--like Shell not working on a lot of spells--is because right now a lot of the calculations for that stuff is too complex. Because it's so complex, it's difficult to balance. They want to make it simpler, not just so the players know what's going on--having to have some super program going on in the background to understand the calculations--but also so when the devs do balancing, it's easier for them to balance.

Now I would love to see a delivery on this philosophy.

[Carpe]

I do think that to some extent it's somewhat pointless for people to be trying to figure out formulas for algorithms that are likely still being tweaked and adjusted and may possibly undergo further revisions.

However, I think that with the addition of the materia system, where a significant amount of stat customization gets placed into the player's hands, SE is somewhat obligated to give us more information in the future as to what each stat does and why we would prefer one stat over another in a given situation.

High level materia is a large investment for a player, if the game is going to provide separate materia for say STR and ATK, then it's forcing the player to decide which will be better. If the player's goal is to increase their damage then they should at least have a small sense of how these variables will affect their damage differently so that they can make a correct choice.

SE can let the hardcores figure out the exact formulas and algorithms for themselves, but I think they owe it the general population to give them a general sense of how these stats differ from one another so that they have a guideline for making sound decisions and not have to waste time and resources making blind assumptions that may not be optimal for them.

[tachikoma]

brucey, make an account on guildwork and PM me "tachi" or search my character tachikomas. I have a working parser for helping track your data. Would make your life a million times easier when collecting data. does breakdowns for floor/ceiling of normal/crit's and seperates out ws's. same for healing/enfeeble etc.

Also for myself I find in all cases that STR > ATK power even vs lower lvl mobs anything even match or higher and STR is more effective it is something like 3AP => +1dmg and +2STR => +1dmg

[Carpe]

it is something like 3AP => +1dmg and +2STR => +1dmg

That corresponds with how Attack Power materia maxes out at +30 and Strength materia maxes out at +20