You think our Cash shop is bad...take a look at THIS

[Whiteroom]

"tokens that enable a player to repeatedly access loot in Duos, Alerts and Raids without having to wait for the set reset period." and across all characters on one account? ::blinks::

Am I understanding this right? A player could pay for as many of these as they like (can afford), spam the living crap out of content for the loot, effectively overcoming the RNG to an extent in order to obtain rare gear far faster than otherwise possible? Is that about right? So in FFXIV it would have been like being able to run, and rerun Coil as many times as you like without the lockout preventing you from doing so? We'd have had people in full High Allagan gear inside two days...lol

I take it that DCUO is known as a pay to win game?

Yes. That one item makes our cash shop look great in comparison, doesn't it?

Though the P2W debate has come up over there about them, and the typical fall back is that you still have to actually play the content. So while you can make it sound like its not, you are really, really pushing it.

Thats the game where the player base showed that they left, I think it was, the best chest and head piece out of the loot tables to sell more replays. They claimed they were always there, and it was just RNG, but thousands of runs later and no one having it... then all of a sudden it blew up, hotfix, and those drop like candy...


This is where I see the real danger in cash shops, not ponies and paint.

I was unaware about the Head and Chest piece loot, since I stopped shortly after Origin Crisis, but yea, thats incredibly crap of them.

I do agree, in terms of cash shop items I'd rather have cosmetics (Yes, Sleipnir is a cosmetic. Deal with it nerds.) than whatever DCUO started to do.

Yeah, it was the Traces in Time pieces from Paradox Wave. That was Crisis wasn't it? I can't remember anymore.
I stopped after the first War of Light, that previous thing, along with other similar things left a bad taste in my mouth. I couldn't keep giving money to developers I had zero respect for. It was one of those things where you log out one day and just never log back in.

[Reila_Circus]

"tokens that enable a player to repeatedly access loot in Duos, Alerts and Raids without having to wait for the set reset period." and across all characters on one account? ::blinks::

Am I understanding this right? A player could pay for as many of these as they like (can afford), spam the living crap out of content for the loot, effectively overcoming the RNG to an extent in order to obtain rare gear far faster than otherwise possible? Is that about right? So in FFXIV it would have been like being able to run, and rerun Coil as many times as you like without the lockout preventing you from doing so? We'd have had people in full High Allagan gear inside two days...lol

I take it that DCUO is known as a pay to win game?

It actually worse than that. For one thing, they sold updates to the game as "DLC" for Free players and subscribed players as just normal updates. The replay badges really killed the game, not only could you replay as many times for loot, but they also had a token system too, at one point they converted all the previous tokens into one and introduced a generator system to help boost you with things like Side kicks, hench men, orbital strikes, etc. Anything really to give you an edge, but what powered these machines? Tokens. So essentially you had to grind old raids, alerts, etc for these tokens to power these machines, and essentially use the replay badges to bypass the weekly reset to get more tokens to keep your generators powered.

So, yea. It kinda become pay 2 win.

[Warlyx]

u guys are comparing apples (F2p games) vs oranges (p2p games)...

f2p need to keep the money coming somehow :/

but p2p ? with subs and good playerbase numbers , cash shop are just pure greed.

[WinterLuna]

I know our cash shop could be worse but with P2P games, I don't see the need for one. We pay for the game itself, expansions, and then our monthly subscription, and are still charged for other things. Of course they're optional, but it's just not absolutely necessary.

[Reila_Circus]

Though the P2W debate has come up over there about them, and the typical fall back is that you still have to actually play the content. So while you can make it sound like its not, you are really, really pushing it.

Thats the game where the player base showed that they left, I think it was, the best chest and head piece out of the loot tables to sell more replays. They claimed they were always there, and it was just RNG, but thousands of runs later and no one having it... then all of a sudden it blew up, hotfix, and those drop like candy...


This is where I see the real danger in cash shops, not ponies and paint.

I was unaware about the Head and Chest piece loot, since I stopped shortly after Origin Crisis, but yea, thats incredibly crap of them.

I do agree, in terms of cash shop items I'd rather have cosmetics (Yes, Sleipnir is a cosmetic. Deal with it nerds.) than whatever DCUO started to do.

[Zarzak]

Recently an update added 18 new emote to the game, except they are locked out. But, if you...Want To Buy All The Emotes In Destiny? It'll Run You $38

I come here expecting them selling raid gear or something. They are selling emotes.... This is what you consider noteworthy abuse of the cash shop system? Vanity fluff? This is exactly what SHOULD be in the cash shop.

[Kosmos992k]

Yes. That one item makes our cash shop look great in comparison, doesn't it?

Definitely.

Though the P2W debate has come up over there about them, and the typical fall back is that you still have to actually play the content. So while you can make it sound like its not, you are really, really pushing it.

Thats the game where the player base showed that they left, I think it was, the best chest and head piece out of the loot tables to sell more replays. They claimed they were always there, and it was just RNG, but thousands of runs later and no one having it... then all of a sudden it blew up, hotfix, and those drop like candy...

LOL I encountered something like that in another game...

This is where I see the real danger in cash shops, not ponies and paint.

I completely agree with you.

On the subject of cash shops and f2p games, I'd like to make it completely crystal clear, I don't like the f2p model, I am not a huge fan of cash shops in games. If I pay for the game purchase, pay for my monthly sub and even additional service options like retainers, I see no reason why I should have to pony up for additional things in a cash shop. In free to play games, the cash shops and the items in them, along with the in-game currency and economy are consciously designed to hook players into a treadmill grind of microtransactions.

It's like a psychotropic drug addiction in virtual form. The most obvious example I can think of is the completely deplorable Farmville. I had a co-worker so addicted to the game that there is no telling how much they spent on it. I do know that they spend 7-8 hours a day at 'work' playing the game.

However, I can more easily tolerate cash shops that serve up older cosmetic items - which is largely what Mogstation does - so long as the profit goes back into the game; also the items are items that were easily available in-game, but have since been replaced by others, and retired. It's not ideal, but it's tolerable. I don't want to see things appearing in the cash shop before they appear in the game, nor do I want anything sold in the cash shop that can affect my ability to play or complete content.

This story may help you understand why I feel that way.
(Tl;DR; I've seen what happens when free to play, microtransaction games fade, and it's not pretty. )

Anyone who played White Knight Chronicles 1 & 2 on PS3 may remember that beyond the initial purchase, the game was free to play, but you had numerous tickets that you could buy to enhance your in-game XP, gold and gathering/drop rates, as well specific items to enable special gear for your 'knight', guilds, skins and of course a bazillion georama items. Now, White Knight was a good game, it fulfilled the need for a nearly turn based JRPG on the PS3 but also provided online multi-player similar to a true MMORPG. Like JRPGs in general it was quite the grindfest and there was a lot of incentive to purchase the various tickets to boost XP, Guild Rank points and gold.

An entire tier of additional content that was made for the game was cancelled outside of Japan, though no one knows why given that the game sold more or less as many copies outside Japan as it did inside Japan. Inevitably players found out (can't hide from the Internet), got angry and some, of course, left the game. In the end, SCEA/D3/Level 5 decided to kill the game outside Japan using the excuse that there was not enough revenue from the remaining players to justify keeping the game servers open. They were shut down in less than 2 years, leaving the remaining regular players in the lurch, and feeling very bitter towards the publishers (less so to the developer).

Now, you might say, and I would agree, that by making the game microtransaction based and failing to deliver a major tier of content, the publisher effectively created the situation where revenue was insufficient themselves. That's the danger of a game dependent on the variable income of microtransactions. Sooner or later, someone doesn't want to take the risk of investing a bit more money into the game, and the players suffer. Ultimately when the players suffer, so does the game and the revenue. It ends badly.

Subscriptions are by far the most honest way to charge players for a game, and the most dependable income source for the developers/producers, ultimately I believe that does mean a better game that has a longer life, and which serves it's players (customers) in a better way than F2P ever can.

[Blood-Aki]

OP really has described how F2P games operate, any person who isn't a fool knows you spend far more then you think playing F2p games, unless you can resist the urge ( and be behind everyone else) to spend on a games micro transactions. they do have to make money and since these games aren't good or brave enough to attempt a sub fee they prey on people and some games like PSO2 are getting rich off micros because people will foolishly toss money at anything, No matter how dumb it is.

As it's already been said a P2P game should never have a cash shop, it's just double dipping, since they know people won't resist throwing money for instant gratification. Thankfully its all forgettable stuff but it's still there. I still can't help but laugh at people who bought odin mount and now never use it because it doesn't fly. That's just one example of why this shouldn't be here, it would have made much more sense to put it in the Urth's Font fight.

But this is how MMOs will go, they will mostly be F2P and people like me will mostly ignore them. as my money can be spent on better things or games.

[Reila_Circus]

Anyone who played White Knight Chronicles 1 & 2 on PS3 may remember that beyond the initial purchase, the game was free to play, but you had numerous tickets that you could buy to enhance your in-game XP, gold and gathering/drop rates, as well specific items to enable special gear for your 'knight', guilds, skins and of course a bazillion georama items. Now, White Knight was a good game, it fulfilled the need for a nearly turn based JRPG on the PS3 but also provided online multi-player similar to a true MMORPG. Like JRPGs in general it was quite the grindfest and there was a lot of incentive to purchase the various tickets to boost XP, Guild Rank points and gold.

An entire tier of additional content that was made for the game was cancelled outside of Japan, though no one knows why given that the game sold more or less as many copies outside Japan as it did inside Japan. Inevitably players found out (can't hide from the Internet), got angry and some, of course, left the game. In the end, SCEA/D3/Level 5 decided to kill the game outside Japan using the excuse that there was not enough revenue from the remaining players to justify keeping the game servers open. They were shut down in less than 2 years, leaving the remaining regular players in the lurch, and feeling very bitter towards the publishers (less so to the developer).

I remember that crap. Luckily, I had a Game Genie.

:^)

[Felis]

Developement is pretty generalized anyways. Was moving EU considered development...? Now im actually curious how specifically all the cash shop revenue is used towards game "development". Be funny if it was used to "develope" more cash shop items.

There are not really many "pure" cash shop items. The most of them are old seasonal gears.
Our cash shop is more like a 2nd hand shop that sell leftovers from past events ^^