You think our Cash shop is bad...take a look at THIS

[Risvertasashi]

gladly will play a mediocre game just because it's free and end up paying more money for the crappy items in cash shop are bad for gaming, too. Companies who milk on this and take advantage of people by charging them absurd amounts of money are just as bad. I really don't understand this symbiotic yet ridiculous and stupid relationship betwen the two.

It's easy to understand and the reasons you've pretty much got right there. A lot of the time, F2P measures are distasteful to game developers too. It's really only the business side that has a hard on for it. But game devs are forced because, more and more, people aren't willing to spend any amount of money up front. Business leaders within a company love it because, well, F2P works very well from a business perspective: easy to hook customers and, as you point out, they end up paying more.

Subs are somewhat attractive because of the stability and steady income but it's a hard sell. And yeah, most people think $15/mo is a lot when they then turn around and pay their cable co often well over $100, and then their cell provider again over $100/mo in many cases.

But $50 for that really cute armor set, maybe a $10 exp boost to help them along, throw in some premium dyes to make said armor look cuter, and people will pay that happily... and again every time a new one is released...

[Kosmos992k]

But $50 for that really cute armor set, maybe a $10 exp boost to help them along, throw in some premium dyes to make said armor look cuter, and people will pay that happily... and again every time a new one is released...

Unfortunately many people are willing to be the dripping roast that game publishers feed from. Far fewer see the up-front investment of purchase and/or subscription as worthwhile because they look at the individual $$ amounts and see that the game costs $40 or $60, and the sub is $15 a month, but all those microtransactions are only $0.99-$4.99 (or whatever) and they do not consider that all the microtransactions ultimately add up, quite possibly adding up to more than the sub or game purchase, but it's a drip, drip, drip expense and so not as visible as a one off chunk each month.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

I'm quite sure a "second" video game crash is going to come from a lot of other factors (shoddy quality, indie devs with too big of an ego, season passes, etc). Cash shops are a drop in the ocean.

[Colorful]

How is this even close to being as bad as FFXIV's cash shop? A mount is $25, a barding is $7, a phantasia is $10, an earring is $3. If I were a new player I'd have to spend what, over several hundred buying these items? Tell me, do the majority of players care about emotes or actual visible gear and mounts? FFXIV is a close second to having the worst model for a P2P game, WoW being the first.

[Archaell]

FFXIV's cash shop is indeed still reasonable... except for one thing - retainers.

I could live with buying additional retainers for 10$ etc, but paying additional sub fee? It doesn't matter how small the fee is, it seems nuts.

[Risvertasashi]

FFXIV's cash shop is indeed still reasonable... except for one thing - retainers.

I could live with buying additional retainers for 10$ etc, but paying additional sub fee? It doesn't matter how small the fee is, it seems nuts.

From a business standpoint, it's one of the most brilliant moves in the industry. Previous games that sell inventory space only get a one time fee; MMO market standard sub fee has basically been stagnant. Yoshi finally found a way to increase it, while not scaring off (more) new players with an even higher monthly fee.

As a player, though, yeah, it sucks.

[BreathlessTao]

From a business standpoint, it's one of the most brilliant moves in the industry. Previous games that sell inventory space only get a one time fee; MMO market standard sub fee has basically been stagnant. Yoshi finally found a way to increase it, while not scaring off (more) new players with an even higher monthly fee.

As a player, though, yeah, it sucks.

I don't know, if they have to increase the sub fees, I'd rather they increased the sub fees - would be straightforward and direct, instead of cornering players into a situation where they eventually "have" to pay more anyway. Throwing items from the past in a cash shop in a P2P game - that's just shady and leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Those who keep on p(l)aying already paid for all those, and they're just making others pay for them too. Whether it affects the gameplay or not is completely irrelevant, this is the core of it in either case. And it's not like they couldn't make those items obtainable in-game if they wanted to.
Especially with this "reasoning" that that cash shop purchases contribute to further development of the game itself - er, what happens with all the subscription money then? Yes, they're launching an actual European datacenter - now, more than two years after launch. Why is it that pretty much everyone else can do that right at the start of a game? And at the same time (now, more than two years later, with lots of content patches and an expansion later) we're still getting the "can't do it because of servers" blahblah when it comes to a bigger inventory, either directly or via retainers - and oh, look, it actually can be done, it just has to be a rent model because they apparently need more money...? Even more shady.
No, the whole thing just doesn't sit right. Especially in a game where the devs have been (used to be?) so obsessed with "restoring trust" and being transparent and communicating with the players. Dunno about others, but I personally don't like being taken for a fool.

[Felis]

FFXIV's cash shop is indeed still reasonable... except for one thing - retainers.

I could live with buying additional retainers for 10$ etc, but paying additional sub fee? It doesn't matter how small the fee is, it seems nuts.

but retainers are extra and not inside the cash shop ^^
Still better than +3$/month for every character slot that we had during 1.x

[Colorful]

but retainers are extra and not inside the cash shop ^^

Well, they're still in a shop that you use cash to buy things from so...

[Felis]

Well, they're still in a shop that you use cash to buy things from so...

Then 1.0 had also already a cash shop, because we bought character slots extra (yes, even the first character slot)