"Who...what are you?"

[Belhi]

Well, I really don't know how Ellice reacted as I don't identify at all to the WoL... But I think she would have stopped working for Hydaelyn almost instantly. Ellice is a really sensible character, and should she understand That she hurt somebody, or let her feelings and reasoning destroy another person's life, not even knowing if what she did was truly right... Because that's how I felt when I killed Thordan, I wasn't sure we did something good... And that's why I tried so much to understand Thordan.

And on Hydaelyn bleeding for primals... Well, yes. But then again, Thordan doesn't give a damn about Hydaelyn and Zodiark, he wants to protect Ishgard.

Aymeric also doesn't sound to me as a calm guy... He was angry at Thordan for personal reasons and Thordan was angry at him for personal reasons... It was stupid to let him go there alone.

Hydaelyn isn't just a floaty crystal. It is all made one. An embodiment of the life of the world. Simply put, Primals suck the world of its very life force. This is why Alexander would have made the Hinterlands barren within months and why we kill Primals. Their very existence kills the world around them slowly and the stronger they are the more they consume.

Regardless of Thordan's intentions, which I felt were short sighted, his method would have come at a terrible price. This is assuming he just wiped out the Garleans and the dragons (and frankly not all dragons deserve to be killed off any more than the Ishgardians do). Add to that, his dialog in the fight seemed to imply he didn't plan to just stop with Ishgard but 'bring order to the world' as a new god king.

Aymeric went along cause he hoped he could make his father see reason and bring change to Ishgard rather than enforcing a lie. The very basis for Ishgard's social structure, which in turn has lead to serious social equality and abuses of lower classes, was a lie. He was, quite rightly, convinced that with Nidhogg gone it was only a matter of time before the lower classes began to get restless of the oppression of the high houses.

Thordan was in a position of authority with the influence to transition Ishgard into a less socially imbalanced society and therefore avoid potential civil unrest. Lets be clear. We had already removed Nidhogg when Thordan left. He didn't need the power of a primal to defeat that dragon anymore. The Horde had had its head cut off.

[Morningstar1337]

which in turn has lead to serious social equality and abuses of lower classes...

Typos create contradictions and mutually exclusive attributes

[Kallera]

Thordan was in a position of authority with the influence to transition Ishgard into a less socially imbalanced society and therefore avoid potential civil unrest. Lets be clear. We had already removed Nidhogg when Thordan left. He didn't need the power of a primal to defeat that dragon anymore. The Horde had had its head cut off.

Thordan needed the power in order to best the Ascians, beings we cannot be relied upon to kill without considerable set up and expensive rocks. It was a surprise that Urianger found even a second for us to take with us to azis lla.

Even with Nidhoog dead, the lands of dravania is rife with proof of letting Ascian meddling go out of hand. And Thordan clearly had a deal with these beings. He wanted(and, in his view, needed) to put one over on them or Ishgard's society would never be safe.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Even with Nidhoog dead, the lands of dravania is rife with proof of letting Ascian meddling go out of hand. And Thordan clearly had a deal with these beings. He wanted(and, in his view, needed) to put one over on them or Ishgard's society would never be safe.

I'm not sure I understand, There... As it appears to me, Thordan never allied with the Ascians, both sides were just playing fools of each other... Thordan thought the Ascians would fall in his trap, and the Ascians thought Thordan would fall in their trap. And Dravania and the Ascians have nothing to do with one another, we only know that Ascians helped summoning Bahamut (And Alexander, probably, although I'm not sure it is said, but I can be wrong).

And yes, I know what Hydaelyn is supposed to be the source of all life... But that's what we're told, and we're not necessarily told the truth... Hydaelyn herself and Minfillia told us so, Midgardsormr seems to be Hydaelyn's vassal, but that doesn't mean Hydaelyn is good while Zodiark is bad. We only know that Primals bleed Hydaelyn dry, enabling Zodiark to return. Thordan wanted to become a new god, maybe, but so he could take care of Zodiark and Hydaelyn, ensuring that no deity would ever intercede in the mortals' life anymore. Honestly... That's not so bad.

And for the twelve's sake, stop assuming things over Thordan, you don't have more proofs that he was going to be a tyrant than I do to prove he was going to be great. He's dead. Maybe he would have been a bad ruler and we would have killed him, maybe he would have been a precious ally, once we discussed with him. Maybe he was enforcing Ishgard's old ways up till the end of the war, because it was needed for him to gather enough power to win it, and would have let Aymeric rule, or any other guy that was good enough for the job. Maybe he was going to rule the theocracy as he always did, being a bad guy. The thing is, we won't ever know.

Finally, Aymeric didn't go to Thordan to reason him, he went to demand that Thordan ceases his actions, and probably take a personnal revenge for being a bastard son. Thordan thought about this plan for decades, and was convinced it was for the greater good, why would he listen to a capricious child that only sees a part of the bigger truth ? Try to walk in his shoes : he had absolutely no reason to listen to Aymeric, nor could he explain Aymeric his plan, since the ascians were probably there.

I still don't get why you all need... baddies. That's a very manichean way to see the lore, I think... Yeah, Thordan was an enemy, but he wasn't a bad guy. Like most FF villains, to be honest.

It was a surprise that Urianger found even a second for us to take with us to azis lla.

A gift from Elidibus, probably...