Final Fantasy XIV going back to Final Fantasy Roots

[Saphirro]

Maybe becuase they enjoy playing this game.

Read carefully next time. There is "should buy" future, how they can enjoy playing this game since they didnt played it yet ?
And i enjoy solitare, tertris, cs, etc too. So the statement of yours is pretty much invalid.

[Nyghtmarerobu]

Question for you all. If you could take what defines or highlights "Final Fantasy" across multiple the majority of its iterations, what would it be? Not just chocobos or crystals, but what it lends to gaming generally...

When I think of Final Fantasy, I think of a great cast of characters, amazing over-arching storyline, and great music. The titles themselves are always changing from one to the next in terms of adding or removing things from the gameplay.

- elements - damage resist absorb, pretty much in all FF
- gunblades - a lot of characters are using this weapon

This stuff is would be interesting to add, but the game isn't an old Final Fantasy title. Its a new one. They bring what they want to it, and this stuff won't make it more of a "Final Fantasy", even if you think it will. This isn't what defined the series, anyone can tell you that.

There's a difference between adding more of the same and actually adding something to the model.

If you truly believe this then I would argue that expansions and DLC's for many games never brought "anything to the model".

How about this, lets look at Diablo 2's expansion, Lord of Destruction. What did it add overall to its game? 2 new playable characters, hordes of new equipment, new areas, new enemys, new bosses, new quests and story, and a host of balancing. But man that sure isn't much they brought to the model, Druid was a mashup of a mage and Necromancer, and who cares about new loot, thats trivial right? New area's don't do anything for the game as a whole, as you said. But this expansion was hailed as great, so whats the differance between it and heavensward? I can't point how any of these made the game for the better. See what I did there. You're being overly critical, anyone can do this. The game has flaws, yes, but just because there are a host of things you don't care about or don't like, doesn't make them a failure.

Now you have biiiiiig amount of MMORPGs whats so special about FFXIV ? Why to choose it ? Thats the question. If you have 2 breads that looks same just another package which you choose ? OFC cheaper.

Then what is keeping you here? Why are you making a huge fuss over something you don't seem to care about when "there's cheaper and better" things out there. I'd have already left if that was the case. I like everything this game has to offer, I dabble in all the things, crafting, gathering, leveling, raiding. I do it all, and I like it all. If you constrict yourself to 1 or 2 things, you're going to get bored faster. Do I think things could be fixed? Sure, things can always be improved, but what everyone here is asking is for a different game. And you aren't going to get it, simply because the game is established, its been made.

Lets look back at FF14, 1.0. It was remade. Why? It was broken. It was incomplete. Do you honestly believe this new version is in the same place? I don't think any of you can actually believe this is a bag game, you're still playing and paying for it. If you did, you'd have stopped right? You don't buy crappy games right? Because I know I don't.

[Iromi]

PvE? We have this? IV only seen the open world as mostly catered to crafters and gatherers cause once you hit 60 all battle related stuff is in timed instances? Cept hunt mobs but these are hit and miss. Raids are awfull period open world content as a battle class awfull (and I mean as a level 60 class). Gear progression.....im not even going to touch this.

Lol nailed it. Oh how I miss PvE...

[Saphirro]

This stuff is would be interesting to add, but the game isn't an old Final Fantasy title. Its a new one. They bring what they want to it, and this stuff won't make it more of a "Final Fantasy", even if you think it will. This isn't what defined the series, anyone can tell you that.

So since you point its not what makes FF than tell us what does. From what i remember elemental damage is there from old to new FFs in every single one except FFXIV. So yes i dare to say its one of core aspects of FF.

Then what is keeping you here? Why are you making a huge fuss over something you don't seem to care about when "there's cheaper and better" things out there. I'd have already left if that was the case. I like everything this game has to offer, I dabble in all the things, crafting, gathering, leveling, raiding. I do it all, and I like it all. If you constrict yourself to 1 or 2 things, you're going to get bored faster. Do I think things could be fixed? Sure, things can always be improved, but what everyone here is asking is for a different game. And you aren't going to get it, simply because the game is established, its been made.

Lets look back at FF14, 1.0. It was remade. Why? It was broken. It was incomplete. Do you honestly believe this new version is in the same place? I don't think any of you can actually believe this is a bag game, you're still playing and paying for it. If you did, you'd have stopped right? You don't buy crappy games right? Because I know I don't.

What keeps in game is hell of the question. If you mean log in do daily and 1-3 lvls on my lvl 14 monk per day than yes i keep playing
Yes i dont like crafting in this game coz it takes so long, could be done differently with same outcome + im in EU and closest server have 0.4-0.6s delay(thats 400-600ms ping) so in every single step i lost this time for basic crafting it takes basic craft time +more than 2 sec per item, so this thing keeps me out of crafting too. So since im not crafting gathering isnt useful to me either. Lvling its ok if you are multi class type, im not, main and maybe 1 alt class but thats all. Raiding ? Like what ? A1-A4 you can do in 40mins. A1S-A4S is pure damage check nothing interesting in change of fight.
We are not asking for different game we are asking for features that should be there from start. FFXIV 1.0 as was mentioned there wast remade because it wasnt hard or bad, but because as you said it was incomplete.
None of us said its bad game and if they did please find it. We provided feedback what we wanna in-game, and most of the feedback are things that pple want from FFXIV 1.0 and they are still not in-game. Why? What is so hard on multi item preview feature f.e.? Do you think its hard to implement? If no than why its not in game already? And thats where it stops. We provide feedback, SE ignore it and lives go on. We play, we leave and thats it. The people are actually leaving this game and surly its not because they give us so much to do.

[Nyghtmarerobu]

So since you point its not what makes FF than tell us what does.

When I think of Final Fantasy, I think of a great cast of characters, amazing over-arching storyline, and great music. The titles themselves are always changing from one to the next in terms of adding or removing things from the gameplay.

Already did in a previous post.

[DarkmoonVael]

Read carefully next time. There is "should buy" future, how they can enjoy playing this game since they didnt played it yet ?
And i enjoy solitare, tertris, cs, etc too. So the statement of yours is pretty much invalid.

Big wall of text complaining about game met with single sentence response of why people play the game. So yes, the statement is Valid.

Also what makes a final fantasy game a final fantasy game is one that shares the same universal cosmology and mythos. They also tend to follow the same stucture of an intrepid band of heroes vs a higher malevolent power.

Elemental strengths and weaknesses arent exactly central to final fantasy. They occur in some series but not all, and are not the defining feature of the game.

[Lainmyst]

I know this debate has been going on for a long time over the course of many MMOs. But the issue here is more with gamers then with the creators for this or any MMO. We have become increasingly needing of constant stimulation. And it needs to be fast. because we don't like slow at all.

MMOs are a peculiar type of game compared with single player. They usually don't have an end, most have similar mechanics, many except a few are based in a fantasy world where we are expected to spend a lot of time in to progress on what ever direction the Developers design for us. And now they can't create new content for us fast enough. When they do its not enough or it's the same as before, nothing new. They put in insane hours sacrificing their health and families for us. And still we complain. There is a heck of a lot to do in this game and will have much more when 3.1 comes out. The problem though is with a lot of end gamers. They really don't bother too much with the side content, could care less about the story so skip over most of it then get bored cause there isn't enough to do but run the same dungeons/raids over and over. Of course they get bored then stop playing till the next content patch. I know many who do all kinds of things in the game and are content with it. This is the game that was created no one is forcing anyone to play it if they find they hate it

That said I feel there needs to be something outside of the box done to improve this game. What I am thinking looks to be coming in part in 3.1. However I would like this game to move away from this pattern: do story quests till done, including all dungeons and trials tied to it, then when done spam the same over and over for the gear grind. For us into the stories it seems like a let down. I know many who feel this is the case. I would love for the Dev's to find a way to take this game way beyond the WoW raid and gear grind till the next expansion then rinse and repeat trap we are now in.

[Saphirro]

Big wall of text complaining about game met with single sentence response of why people play the game. So yes, the statement is Valid.

Nope, as u read that again i didnt complain about it just said most of that things are already in MMORPG genre. So for expansion there was like 1 original thing. For the money just overpaid.

Also what makes a final fantasy game a final fantasy game is one that shares the same universal cosmology and mythos. They also tend to follow the same stucture of an intrepid band of heroes vs a higher malevolent power.

Thats right up to that part "They also tend to follow the same stucture of an intrepid band of heroes vs a higher malevolent power." coz this is pretty common in eastern games.

Elemental strengths and weaknesses arent exactly central to final fantasy. They occur in some series but not all, and are not the defining feature of the game.

If it no defining future of the game try to deafeat ifrit with fire spells or shiva with ice spells. Pretty much it does affect game at all. And i bet in new FF there will be again this aspect of the game.

When I think of Final Fantasy, I think of a great cast of characters, amazing over-arching storyline, and great music. The titles themselves are always changing from one to the next in terms of adding or removing things from the gameplay.

Overlooked it so here it comes

characters - agree, but this is mmo so main character is you and... well... 3 millions of other chosen for single player yes for mmo no.
storyline - ok not important for me in MMORPGs but i give you point for that
music - didnt change that much for all FF series so, could be, but this is subjective. I played several eastern single player games with similar music so its not that unique.
You said that titles change themselves from one to another but anyway there are still some things that weren't changed in neither of them. Up to FFXIV, and i bet we will get back several of them in next FF title.

MMOs are a peculiar type of game compared with single player.

Since FF is mostly single player series than yes we can compare same titles even though one is SP and other is MMO.

And now they can't create new content for us fast enough. When they do its not enough or it's the same as before, nothing new.

Actually thats not true. Since game content is done by bunch of people you still can increase number of those people but company wont do it coz of profit.

They put in insane hours sacrificing their health and families for us. And still we complain.

Farmers spend insane hours in fields. A lot of people spend insane hours in warehouses. They are paid for it so you cant argue they spend a lot of time there. They have option to leave but they are still there.

There is a heck of a lot to do in this game and will have much more when 3.1 comes out.

There isnt much to do if you are interesting in PvE or PvP content. If you are interested in leveling and crafting than yes.

The problem though is with a lot of end gamers. They really don't bother too much with the side content, could care less about the story so skip over most of it then get bored cause there isn't enough to do but run the same dungeons/raids over and over. Of course they get bored then stop playing till the next content patch. I know many who do all kinds of things in the game and are content with it.

I have people in fc that have everything maxed. So what next? There is no content for people they play from start of FFXIV. Story? Once u finish it, it wont continue till next patch, ATM it is 5 months. Side content is what exactly? Crafting? Sorry not much people said "I'm gonna play this game so i can craft".

This is the game that was created no one is forcing anyone to play it if they find they hate it

Dont agree. F.E. if you are interested in 210 chest u are forced to play 4 weeks. This new loot system forced you to play if you wanted something.

That said I feel there needs to be something outside of the box done to improve this game.

Thats true. Now tell me whats different from FF and other generic MMORPGs? 90% of game features are same in every mmo, if we take but something like resistances, and elemental damage you wont find much or any mmo with this system. And i think something that isnt same in generic MMORPGs is "taken as outside of the box" .

What I am thinking looks to be coming in part in 3.1. However I would like this game to move away from this pattern: do story quests till done, including all dungeons and trials tied to it, then when done spam the same over and over for the gear grind.

For most of people i know, they dont think 3.1 will keep them interested in game for long time. I hope they are wrong but thats all we can do. Since game is gear based there always will be grind. This game is PvE oriented so the PvE content should be good enough to get rid of PvP based MMOs and let u interested for more than 1 month.

I would love for the Dev's to find a way to take this game way beyond the WoW raid and gear grind till the next expansion then rinse and repeat trap we are now in.

everybody would love that but its hard to create something unique and entertaining.

[Shurrikhan]

How about this, lets look at Diablo 2's expansion, Lord of Destruction. What did it add overall to its game? 2 new playable characters, hordes of new equipment, new areas, new enemys, new bosses, new quests and story, and a host of balancing. But man that sure isn't much they brought to the model, Druid was a mashup of a mage and Necromancer, and who cares about new loot, thats trivial right? New area's don't do anything for the game as a whole, as you said. But this expansion was hailed as great, so whats the differance between it and heavensward? I can't point how any of these made the game for the better. See what I did there. You're being overly critical, anyone can do this. The game has flaws, yes, but just because there are a host of things you don't care about or don't like, doesn't make them a failure.

To be honest, my aim wasn't in agreeing that Heavensward was "paid fail," but just on pointing out why these things didn't exactly seem new.

However, to further the Diablo II example, I'd have to argue that between its many smaller changes, it did actually change gameplay, perhaps even the model, quite a bit. When did Diablo start having, to popular knowledge, a lively, competitive multiplayer presence? -> Diablo II. What was needed for that? More class choices, even if mash-ups of old classes, class balancing, and more loot to keep us going. The game still entered new breadth and depth. Granted, that's more to be expected with a sequel than a new expansion, and largely just a result of a fairly obvious avenue of improvement...

You say Heavensward was "hailed as great," but that's honestly my first time hearing that opinion in-game or online. "Pretty good" or "cool," usually in reference to the main story progression or the new dungeon environments, was about as positive as I'd heard until the last Vault boss fight. But to say it's really improved or learned from old lessons I would have expected that Alex 1-4 would be distinctly more entertaining than Coil 1-5. I would have expected that there would be more depth in the form of options, not just longer fixed rotations, in the additions to our combat classes (honestly that is the case with most of them though, which is great). I would have expected that maybe flight would actually add something to exploration, rather than being a standard accelerator requisite to joining another zone of yet more FATE grinding (assuming a lack of dungeon queue speed).

I've no reason to say that Heavensward was by any means "bad". I just feel like it was all too willing to leave certain things untouched, which only makes it harder to later improve itself before going stale.
(It still has my favorite combat of any MMO, and probably my favorite graphics. Story... undermechanics... lore... not so much, but I can overlook that. The question is for how long, and for how long will self-induced model restraints make it impossible to really get the most out of whatever ideas later come into play...)

I'd have to say there a ton of small changes that could make a large difference: movement inertia, modifications to in-game cutscenes, in-fight 'highlight' cameras that can show off incoming boss attacks without detracting from personal combat for a overall more cinematic feel, changes or additions to movement controls that help with the same, UI options, modifications/balancing to dodge/parry/block calculations, a UI option that kind of makes you feel like a beast when you visibly reduce a would-be 13k hit to 4k with Sentinel, Rampart, and a block, being able to use other races' movement animations or emotes for greater character-building personalization... Might take the right combination of quite a lot of these to feel like they've made a meaningful difference, but I'm by no means dismissive of their potential.

[Spartacus_Owen]

[QUOTE=Metathetical;3370868]Elemental damage in traditional FF games is actually really boring from a design perspective, for the most part.

Ok and spamming fire until you get a fire proc is thrilling?