Final Fantasy XIV going back to Final Fantasy Roots

[Spartacus_Owen]

There are a whole lot of good and bad arguments on both sides of the fence since I last checked on this post. I will not be able to respond to everything. I want to say that I do like this game hence I am still playing it, however I feel it could do much better and to all the people who say this game is 3 years old well I have played FFXIV since beta came out in 2010 to me and many others this game is 5 years old. Yeah FF has changed things over the course of the years in all FF's however they keep in the same realm of the lore not go way off to left field my biggest argument is the magic damage/healing.... There are many others but I can not sit here and list all of them it would take forever. People say SE is giving a lot of content to new players that is exactly it and half the problem you get them hooked with 10 years of story that is overly dragged out to hit level cap then no content to keep them players get bored leave then a new crowd comes in. I am sorry but this story line does nothing for me I find myself skipping half the cs because they are to dragged out. I have been told by people in game "Why should I raid i can get to almost the same ilvl by farming tomes" and they have a point I am going to be 10 ilvl higher for working hard and doing the "hardest" content? They made 2 versions to the new raid one for players who can not do the content to get the same looking gear and one for more advanced players to have some what of a challenge but when I see people selling endgame content guess what it cant be that hard.... To all you people saying I compare this to XI I had said one thing about XI that was it I don't want this game to be XI but I want it to be 1.0 I have so many memories of 1.0 that i miss to no end. Hamlet defense being one of them at first I will admit I hated it but once i did it learned it, it was incredibly fun. You know why games have a duty/dungeon finder? The real reason? if they didn't could you imagine trying to get groups together on your server alone? I can imagine the outrage. It's just to get players from other servers so you can complete them.

[Shurrikhan]

Question for you all. If you could take what defines or highlights "Final Fantasy" across multiple the majority of its iterations, what would it be? Not just chocobos or crystals, but what it lends to gaming generally...

[Saphirro]

Question for you all. If you could take what defines or highlights "Final Fantasy" across multiple the majority of its iterations, what would it be? Not just chocobos or crystals, but what it lends to gaming generally...

not sure if you meant this but
- elements - damage resist absorb, pretty much in all FF
- gunblades - a lot of characters are using this weapon
- philosophy - Gaia (although mostly presented in FFVII)
- primals - they were present in most of FFs in few even as summons

surly there is more any1 can continue if he remember more core elements

[Nyghtmarerobu]

Question for you all. If you could take what defines or highlights "Final Fantasy" across multiple the majority of its iterations, what would it be? Not just chocobos or crystals, but what it lends to gaming generally...

When I think of Final Fantasy, I think of a great cast of characters, amazing over-arching storyline, and great music. The titles themselves are always changing from one to the next in terms of adding or removing things from the gameplay.

- elements - damage resist absorb, pretty much in all FF
- gunblades - a lot of characters are using this weapon

This stuff is would be interesting to add, but the game isn't an old Final Fantasy title. Its a new one. They bring what they want to it, and this stuff won't make it more of a "Final Fantasy", even if you think it will. This isn't what defined the series, anyone can tell you that.

There's a difference between adding more of the same and actually adding something to the model.

If you truly believe this then I would argue that expansions and DLC's for many games never brought "anything to the model".

How about this, lets look at Diablo 2's expansion, Lord of Destruction. What did it add overall to its game? 2 new playable characters, hordes of new equipment, new areas, new enemys, new bosses, new quests and story, and a host of balancing. But man that sure isn't much they brought to the model, Druid was a mashup of a mage and Necromancer, and who cares about new loot, thats trivial right? New area's don't do anything for the game as a whole, as you said. But this expansion was hailed as great, so whats the differance between it and heavensward? I can't point how any of these made the game for the better. See what I did there. You're being overly critical, anyone can do this. The game has flaws, yes, but just because there are a host of things you don't care about or don't like, doesn't make them a failure.

Now you have biiiiiig amount of MMORPGs whats so special about FFXIV ? Why to choose it ? Thats the question. If you have 2 breads that looks same just another package which you choose ? OFC cheaper.

Then what is keeping you here? Why are you making a huge fuss over something you don't seem to care about when "there's cheaper and better" things out there. I'd have already left if that was the case. I like everything this game has to offer, I dabble in all the things, crafting, gathering, leveling, raiding. I do it all, and I like it all. If you constrict yourself to 1 or 2 things, you're going to get bored faster. Do I think things could be fixed? Sure, things can always be improved, but what everyone here is asking is for a different game. And you aren't going to get it, simply because the game is established, its been made.

Lets look back at FF14, 1.0. It was remade. Why? It was broken. It was incomplete. Do you honestly believe this new version is in the same place? I don't think any of you can actually believe this is a bag game, you're still playing and paying for it. If you did, you'd have stopped right? You don't buy crappy games right? Because I know I don't.

[Saphirro]

This stuff is would be interesting to add, but the game isn't an old Final Fantasy title. Its a new one. They bring what they want to it, and this stuff won't make it more of a "Final Fantasy", even if you think it will. This isn't what defined the series, anyone can tell you that.

So since you point its not what makes FF than tell us what does. From what i remember elemental damage is there from old to new FFs in every single one except FFXIV. So yes i dare to say its one of core aspects of FF.

Then what is keeping you here? Why are you making a huge fuss over something you don't seem to care about when "there's cheaper and better" things out there. I'd have already left if that was the case. I like everything this game has to offer, I dabble in all the things, crafting, gathering, leveling, raiding. I do it all, and I like it all. If you constrict yourself to 1 or 2 things, you're going to get bored faster. Do I think things could be fixed? Sure, things can always be improved, but what everyone here is asking is for a different game. And you aren't going to get it, simply because the game is established, its been made.

Lets look back at FF14, 1.0. It was remade. Why? It was broken. It was incomplete. Do you honestly believe this new version is in the same place? I don't think any of you can actually believe this is a bag game, you're still playing and paying for it. If you did, you'd have stopped right? You don't buy crappy games right? Because I know I don't.

What keeps in game is hell of the question. If you mean log in do daily and 1-3 lvls on my lvl 14 monk per day than yes i keep playing
Yes i dont like crafting in this game coz it takes so long, could be done differently with same outcome + im in EU and closest server have 0.4-0.6s delay(thats 400-600ms ping) so in every single step i lost this time for basic crafting it takes basic craft time +more than 2 sec per item, so this thing keeps me out of crafting too. So since im not crafting gathering isnt useful to me either. Lvling its ok if you are multi class type, im not, main and maybe 1 alt class but thats all. Raiding ? Like what ? A1-A4 you can do in 40mins. A1S-A4S is pure damage check nothing interesting in change of fight.
We are not asking for different game we are asking for features that should be there from start. FFXIV 1.0 as was mentioned there wast remade because it wasnt hard or bad, but because as you said it was incomplete.
None of us said its bad game and if they did please find it. We provided feedback what we wanna in-game, and most of the feedback are things that pple want from FFXIV 1.0 and they are still not in-game. Why? What is so hard on multi item preview feature f.e.? Do you think its hard to implement? If no than why its not in game already? And thats where it stops. We provide feedback, SE ignore it and lives go on. We play, we leave and thats it. The people are actually leaving this game and surly its not because they give us so much to do.

[Nyghtmarerobu]

So since you point its not what makes FF than tell us what does.

When I think of Final Fantasy, I think of a great cast of characters, amazing over-arching storyline, and great music. The titles themselves are always changing from one to the next in terms of adding or removing things from the gameplay.

Already did in a previous post.

[Shurrikhan]

How about this, lets look at Diablo 2's expansion, Lord of Destruction. What did it add overall to its game? 2 new playable characters, hordes of new equipment, new areas, new enemys, new bosses, new quests and story, and a host of balancing. But man that sure isn't much they brought to the model, Druid was a mashup of a mage and Necromancer, and who cares about new loot, thats trivial right? New area's don't do anything for the game as a whole, as you said. But this expansion was hailed as great, so whats the differance between it and heavensward? I can't point how any of these made the game for the better. See what I did there. You're being overly critical, anyone can do this. The game has flaws, yes, but just because there are a host of things you don't care about or don't like, doesn't make them a failure.

To be honest, my aim wasn't in agreeing that Heavensward was "paid fail," but just on pointing out why these things didn't exactly seem new.

However, to further the Diablo II example, I'd have to argue that between its many smaller changes, it did actually change gameplay, perhaps even the model, quite a bit. When did Diablo start having, to popular knowledge, a lively, competitive multiplayer presence? -> Diablo II. What was needed for that? More class choices, even if mash-ups of old classes, class balancing, and more loot to keep us going. The game still entered new breadth and depth. Granted, that's more to be expected with a sequel than a new expansion, and largely just a result of a fairly obvious avenue of improvement...

You say Heavensward was "hailed as great," but that's honestly my first time hearing that opinion in-game or online. "Pretty good" or "cool," usually in reference to the main story progression or the new dungeon environments, was about as positive as I'd heard until the last Vault boss fight. But to say it's really improved or learned from old lessons I would have expected that Alex 1-4 would be distinctly more entertaining than Coil 1-5. I would have expected that there would be more depth in the form of options, not just longer fixed rotations, in the additions to our combat classes (honestly that is the case with most of them though, which is great). I would have expected that maybe flight would actually add something to exploration, rather than being a standard accelerator requisite to joining another zone of yet more FATE grinding (assuming a lack of dungeon queue speed).

I've no reason to say that Heavensward was by any means "bad". I just feel like it was all too willing to leave certain things untouched, which only makes it harder to later improve itself before going stale.
(It still has my favorite combat of any MMO, and probably my favorite graphics. Story... undermechanics... lore... not so much, but I can overlook that. The question is for how long, and for how long will self-induced model restraints make it impossible to really get the most out of whatever ideas later come into play...)

I'd have to say there a ton of small changes that could make a large difference: movement inertia, modifications to in-game cutscenes, in-fight 'highlight' cameras that can show off incoming boss attacks without detracting from personal combat for a overall more cinematic feel, changes or additions to movement controls that help with the same, UI options, modifications/balancing to dodge/parry/block calculations, a UI option that kind of makes you feel like a beast when you visibly reduce a would-be 13k hit to 4k with Sentinel, Rampart, and a block, being able to use other races' movement animations or emotes for greater character-building personalization... Might take the right combination of quite a lot of these to feel like they've made a meaningful difference, but I'm by no means dismissive of their potential.

[Lainmyst]

I know this debate has been going on for a long time over the course of many MMOs. But the issue here is more with gamers then with the creators for this or any MMO. We have become increasingly needing of constant stimulation. And it needs to be fast. because we don't like slow at all.

MMOs are a peculiar type of game compared with single player. They usually don't have an end, most have similar mechanics, many except a few are based in a fantasy world where we are expected to spend a lot of time in to progress on what ever direction the Developers design for us. And now they can't create new content for us fast enough. When they do its not enough or it's the same as before, nothing new. They put in insane hours sacrificing their health and families for us. And still we complain. There is a heck of a lot to do in this game and will have much more when 3.1 comes out. The problem though is with a lot of end gamers. They really don't bother too much with the side content, could care less about the story so skip over most of it then get bored cause there isn't enough to do but run the same dungeons/raids over and over. Of course they get bored then stop playing till the next content patch. I know many who do all kinds of things in the game and are content with it. This is the game that was created no one is forcing anyone to play it if they find they hate it

That said I feel there needs to be something outside of the box done to improve this game. What I am thinking looks to be coming in part in 3.1. However I would like this game to move away from this pattern: do story quests till done, including all dungeons and trials tied to it, then when done spam the same over and over for the gear grind. For us into the stories it seems like a let down. I know many who feel this is the case. I would love for the Dev's to find a way to take this game way beyond the WoW raid and gear grind till the next expansion then rinse and repeat trap we are now in.

[Spartacus_Owen]

A lot of things make Final Fantasy Feel like a Final Fantasy title and yes magical Resistance is one of them it's in every title. Also take a look at summoner the main thing about being a summoner and they do vary from title to title however the main thing is summoning a massive entity to some damage. In XIV you summon what little spirits and the one that is mostly used is Garuda? They hardly look like the actual primal. I can see the hate flow coming in now but look at BRD an archer dps class why not have Ranger for that? Why can't we have a buffer class? Some one who just buffs and debuffs. I am sure yall are going to say that is boring has no depth. I think it is quite interesting. 1.0 was in no way shape or form a uncompleted game. You can say well it failed, it's in the trash, 2.0 wins! All you want. The truth of the matter is 2.0 and yoshi p would not be here if not for Tanka and 1.0. All of this will be a mute point a few years down the road I really do not see XIV lasting that long. Once blizzard comes out with their next big thing everyone will jump on that bandwagon.

[Metathetical]

Ok and spamming fire until you get a fire proc is thrilling?

If you think BLM 60 astral phase is about 'spamming fire until you get a fire proc' then you're a pretty bad BLM.

Plus in general, the hard part about the BLM rotation isn't about making decisions, it's about adapting your rotation to movement, to invulnerability phases (Enochian falling off with 1 second last on a B4 cast is such a terrible feeling), etc. Even in the ATB games, you don't have as much time pressure as you do in an MMO boss fight.

I can see the hate flow coming in now but look at BRD an archer dps class why not have Ranger for that? Why can't we have a buffer class? Some one who just buffs and debuffs.

But... that's what BRD (and MCH) are. They buff allies and debuff enemies in exchange for being worse at DPS than the other DPS classes.