gender equality and social disorder

[Misutoraru]

women: Pantyhose,Leggings,Knee highs, yoga pants, jeans, short shorts, waist high shorts, skirts, sarouls, mini skirts, garters, corsets, t shirts, baby doll t shirts, long sleeve t shirts, skinny jeans, crop tops, gown dresses, mini dress, v cut, of shoulder, shawl, blouse, tank top, strap tanks, one pieces,

actually there is a trend in our country, we starting to sell men leggings, men yoga pant, men long skirts, men sarouls...etc
and i do feel the gender inequality are much stronger in western culture
where in our country, Otokonoko are getting more and more commons, it become so much a hit in our ACG culture
in the western male idols are always the masculine type, whereas in my country feminine face male idols are very common

[pikster]

Its a video game, video games do not have to be the shining beacons of equality to the world.

Why cant I play Dante as a Women in DMC?
Why cant I have a transgender character in Mass Effect?
Why is the main character in COD always a male soldier?

None of these things REALLY matter, REALLY...

Sexual and Gender equality is important, in REAL LIFE, frankly, if implementing the ability to equip a wedding suit to a women took away or delayed some other content I would be pretty pissed because ultimately "glamour" is the least important thing in the game.

[_Pigzig]

when will skirts be a mens item
i want to be free down below

[Serilda]

Why are people using the original request as an excuse to complain about imaginary zealots ruining the game, or ruining completely different games, or demanding unreasonable, unrealistic things such as simple equality and fairness in FFXIV?

A subset of people who play male characters simply want a comparable number of costume options to those who play female ones instead of repeatedly being overlooked. It's nothing to do with real life issues. Nobody's asking them to delay the next raid dungeon so boys can wear skirts (incidentally, we can already wear several skirts). We just want to have the same access to in-game resources. For fun. We have yet to be given a satisfactory answer as to why there are several hats which only female characters can equip and why they keep releasing sets in female-only/unisex configurations. Hats are the supreme example of how absurd this situation is no matter what you feel about gender-appropriate dress or the challenges of 3D modelling.

If the gender issue is too sensitive, would you be ok with an example where (say) all of the new Au Ra players happily logged in for Heavensward only to later discover that a bunch of the glamour options were arbitrarily locked so they could only be used by the other five races? Of course resources were spent on giving all Au Ra women access to a suitable range of older glamour items. Why are male characters not being given the same level of attention?

We're annoyed because most of the restrictions make no sense whatsoever and the continued requests for some kind of equality keep falling on deaf ears. That's it. There's no deeper agenda here to fight against. If you don't personally want more hats that's fine, but is it really necessary to keep derailing a perfectly reasonable request?

If it's Square-Enix policy to give male characters access to fewer items than females, this should be clearly communicated when creating a character so people can make an informed decision before they become attached.

[AkashiXI]

Its a video game, video games do not have to be the shining beacons of equality to the world.

Why cant I play Dante as a Women in DMC?
Why cant I have a transgender character in Mass Effect?
Why is the main character in COD always a male soldier?

None of these things REALLY matter, REALLY...

Sexual and Gender equality is important, in REAL LIFE, frankly, if implementing the ability to equip a wedding suit to a women took away or delayed some other content I would be pretty pissed because ultimately "glamour" is the least important thing in the game.

Least important to you, to others it's an absolute necessity. Maybe you don't care about clothing exclusivity, but others find it needlessly limiting to simple decisions in game. I personally don't see the correlation between gender inequality vs. the decisions the developers make for gear (I see it more of a cultural thing, which is an entire different subject), but I can understand the frustration. But hey, I'm in the camp that I want more gender locked gear in equal parts, and I find it unfair female characters get more gear because it looks "cute" on them .

[SchalaZeal]

Okay, it's a fairly simple concept, Women have the freedom to either conform to gender roles (Which is seen as weak by society) or emulate men (Which are seen by strong by society), men lack this option and are given one option "be men", because a man shouldn't lower himself to more "womanly" things (according to society as is, anyways).

Feminine women are not seen negatively by society, try again. Or butch women would be seen as the ideal women. Feminity is just seen as a quality that can only be positive on women, because men have no inherent value and women do (ie before proving their worth as useful).

Basically, feminity as it is today is flaunting some inherent value, and men are seen as having nothing to flaunt, much like the peasant trying to emulate the rich guy.

Men are seen as USEFUL by society, if they're not they're dumped. They're not seen as strong, they're *required* to be strong. Not strong? Not worth supporting. Victimized men are treated as the worst, and as a burden on others.

So a man isn't lowering himself, he's trying to emulate someone with higher value, without having that higher value. So it's seen as usurpation. Lazyness. Desertion. See the bible edict about men not evading conscription in war by disguising as women, literally not wanting desertion, it's really *really* not out of concern for the dignity of their fellow men.

This is part of concepts that feminists have pointed out like toxic masculinity (Where men have to be men! If they wear 'women's' clothes they're weak) and the concept that masculinity is seen as desirable, but not femininity (Hence why one is unisex, but not the other)...

And it's just not logical, sorry. Sure, there is toxic masculinity and toxic feminity, but it's far from what you mention here. And has little to do with the presumed super-desirability of masculinity and vile-status of feminity. If you were right, fashion would be dead. And little girls would be taught "be practical, act like a man, or else you'll die alone and jobless" (kinda what boys are taught), certainly not encouraged to be feminine or expressive in any way.

Toxic masculinity is when you take masculinity up to 11 or feel forced to be hyper macho and pick fights all the time, feeling threatened. Toxic feminity is feeling forced to be (or act as) the helpless damsel airhead at all times, lest someone think you have agency. You can be certain this is not everyone, it's a tiny % of people.

[Gavir]

Its a video game, video games do not have to be the shining beacons of equality to the world.

Why cant I play Dante as a Women in DMC?
Why cant I have a transgender character in Mass Effect?
Why is the main character in COD always a male soldier?

None of these things REALLY matter, REALLY...

Why bother adding any character creation options in a MMORPG -- ultimately it doesn't matter, right?

The reason why nobody really cares about playing Dante as a woman is because Dante is an established character. And games like CoD, where competitive gameplay is the nuts and bolts of the title, lack any substantial roleplaying element for character identity to bear any importance.

Nobody is demanding SE to subtract time spent on important gameplay development for something fairly minor, but it's an issue worth rectifying if only because arguments for gating male characters from wearing female clothing don't hold much water.

[Roegadyn_Bear]

Try actually reading some of the feminist theories that have been evolving and going on since the 40s (At least in a mainstream sense)... But nah, it's just "nutcases" obviously. You're being incredibly shallow and defensive over a lot of well discussed social theories on gender.

I wasn't talking about actual feminists, though. I was speaking of the nutcases that insist women are strong, independent creatures that can work as well or better than men... but also need special protections from men because apparently women are also fragile creatures that men prey on because of their genital driven urges and that men need to be reigned in because of that.

Seeing as I hit a nerve, I suppose I know which group you belong to.

[Cidel]

Why are people using the original request as an excuse to complain about imaginary zealots ruining the game, or ruining completely different games, or demanding unreasonable, unrealistic things such as simple equality and fairness in FFXIV?

A subset of people who play male characters simply want a comparable number of costume options to those who play female ones instead of repeatedly being overlooked. It's nothing to do with real life issues. Nobody's asking them to delay the next raid dungeon so boys can wear skirts (incidentally, we can already wear several skirts). We just want to have the same access to in-game resources. For fun. We have yet to be given a satisfactory answer as to why there are several hats which only female characters can equip and why they keep releasing sets in female-only/unisex configurations. Hats are the supreme example of how absurd this situation is no matter what you feel about gender-appropriate dress or the challenges of 3D modelling.

This is the topic I'd like to see discussed; but these threads always turn into debates about male characters wearing dresses and skirts when I think what is far more concerning is the amount of female-only gear outnumbers the male-only gear because the developers won't stick to their guns and eventually cave-in and make anything new the males have unisex unless it's topless.

[Noxifer]

Feminine women are not seen negatively by society, try again. Or butch women would be seen as the ideal women. Feminity is just seen as a quality that can only be positive on women, because men have no inherent value and women do (ie before proving their worth as useful).

No, feminine women aren't seen as something negative. But since women have traditionally been named "the weaker sex" -- and we as a species are still in the process of getting rid of that label -- femininity is seen as weaker than masculinity. Or women wouldn't have to prove their worth twice over to be seen as equally capable as a man.
If you compare a girl acting like a boy, and a boy acting like a girl... The girl is called "tomboy", and is told that it's perfectly fine. The boy is called a "sissy" and often threatened with ridicule and/or violence if he doesn't conform.
On the surface, yes, this looks like discrimination against men, and in effect that is what it is. But if you look at the underlying reasons, it's a lot more complicated than that.

It's wrong when you can have masculine women seen as a positive thing and feminine men be a negative thing. The same argument you're using has been used to point out the objectifying of women -- basically that men are valued for what they do, while women are valued for what they are.

Not much you can do about it really because some people aren't quite willing to leave the real world behind and are compelled to bring it with them into the virtual world.

I know D: How dare they drag the whole "men can't wear dresses because it's gay/weird/wrong" issue into the games. They should keep their IRL notions IRL, and let men and women dress however they want in a fantasy game.

Seeing as I hit a nerve, I suppose I know which group you belong to.

Hmm, yes. Because assumptions stemming from misunderstandings are always correct.