gender equality and social disorder

[Samcaesar]

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Video games are a about a lot of things, it doesn't mean they can't implement things like I mean you're talking about "things that don't matter in video games" in a game where you can get married lol.

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Please don't throw around terms like aspergers, especially when you're using it in such an ignorant nonsensical way.

And SE kind of doesn't care about men wearing dresses, they're just lazy about it. See all the skirts and "feminine" clothes already available for guys in the game.

Various longer arguments in boxes. Lots of stuff to talk about that I care to say.. And the several pages of responses aren't fun to sort through lol.

For Roegadyn_Bear

I wasn't talking about actual feminists, though. I was speaking of the nutcases that insist women are strong, independent creatures that can work as well or better than men... but also need special protections from men because apparently women are also fragile creatures that men prey on because of their genital driven urges and that men need to be reigned in because of that.

Seeing as I hit a nerve, I suppose I know which group you belong to.

"Actual feminists" is a loaded term akin to "No true scotsman" fallacies. And.. Women can be strong, independent people that can work as well or better than men (On an individual basis, because it's how that phrase is generally used) and yet they still do need special protections because society at large still is sexist as heck. It's not that men are some predatory and awful people by nature, it's that society encourages a lot of awful behavior in men that results in plenty of predatory

I personally associate myself with inclusive feminists who gets incredibly annoyed at generalizing statements without making much in depth thought as to what is being said. Tumblr is a very large site with no clear notation on what's actually "popular" and what isn't due to it's structure, you can't define a "tumblr feminist" any more than you can define a "tumblr neo-nazi" or "tumblr artist" making the moniker useless. I mean, yes you hit a nerve, but that's because you're continuing to perpetuate a completely useless phrase that people use to discredit a certain part of a philosophy that existed prior to the site's existence. It's a bad way to have discourse lol.

For SchalaZeal. I'm actually going to just say. Noxifer addresses what I'd say fairly well, though I'd probably say some other things about masculinity and femininity and how society perceives them, but I don't wanna talk too much. Sorry about your experiences with radfems/TERFs have ever happened, because those people are conservatives in a progressive's clothes and they're really awful (As a trans woman involved in progressive politics myself I really dislike them. Same with that psychologists you've seen, hopefully the medical community advances to a better point of tolerance.

Thanks for continuing the discussion Noxifer, I tend to need to take breaks from this site, so it's nice to see the discussion continue with someone saying points I basically agree with. Love seeing your face around here, though that might be because we're generally on the same page I think :P

And thanks to others for participating as well, I kind of like that it got derailed a bit, because I'm really tired of dealing with the same talking points when the statement of why it's not the case has been released.

[Savagelf]

please don't called your thread social disorder if you don't understand what social disorder is. asperger which i have is has alot to understand how commicate with social at large and not understand humor or social rules or even culture in general. most of us who have asperger feel like we ether alien or robot. me person i feel data at time. i never very good understand how relate to my fellow man. i also have writing disabitity the cause me skip word in my sentences.

i struggle time to time understand sarcasm at time.

[Serilda]

The original poster already renamed the thread when it was pointed out that it was a bad title, it's just they can't fix the title which is displayed above it. I think that they meant that treating characters of different genders unequally was a reflection of a double standard in society (rather than that people with social difficulties are bad or contributing to the problem in some way). The forums include people from many different backgrounds in terms of native language, age and level of education, so I don't think they meant anything negative by their use of the expression.

While I'm posting I don't think it's fair that a couple of people have been criticising the original poster's intent as 'bait' (even going as far as tagging the thread that way, tsk) when it's asking a perfectly reasonable question about a bizarre game design choice which was probably never even consciously intended by the staff. Frankly speaking, if anyone is unable to contain their need to attack people who simply want an equal number of clothing choices for male and female characters without doing something ban-worthy, it's better for the forums on the whole if they go ahead and get themselves banned and hopefully learn a few life lessons about how to communicate their views respectfully. Most of the discussion here has remained perfectly civilised even though it's been heated at times.

I maintain that it's unfair that my friend, who chose a female character, gets more clothing options to choose from than I, who chose a male character, even though the gender decision during character creation wasn't advertised as limiting the number of glamours available later on. She looks great in a suit, and I'd like to have the opportunity to see whether my character looks similarly good in bunny ears. That's all.

[RubyCirha]

please don't called your thread social disorder if you don't understand what social disorder is. asperger which i have is has alot to understand how commicate with social at large and not understand humor or social rules or even culture in general. most of us who have asperger feel like we ether alien or robot. me person i feel data at time. i never very good understand how relate to my fellow man. i also have writing disabitity the cause me skip word in my sentences.

i struggle time to time understand sarcasm at time.

i do aplogise if my title has offended you i did try to change it but after the post was made it was kinda stuck like that agen im am sorry if the title offended you in any way i to have spelling disabilitys to some degree so i can understand how you feel at least to some degree

[Savagelf]

it not your fault ruby it more confused me then offend me. i am sorry that i toke to serouis

[RubyCirha]

its ok lol

[WinterLuna]

The whole 'I don't want to see males in dresses' argument is absolutely pathetic. That's just like me saying 'I don't like your glamour and don't want to see it.'

The fact this is a fantasy game and not real life gives people even more the reason to request this.. If looking at a male, non-existent character, entirety based on fantasy wearing a dress offends you, you should play another game.

[Savagelf]

there alot different between robes and dress. mage wear robes. even when name armor it not called mage dress it called mages robes

[WinterLuna]

there alot different between robes and dress. mage wear robes.

It doesn't make a difference. Some people like robes, some people like dresses.

[Noxifer]

Semi-OT convo with Schala hidden below:

The procedure seems to have been written to protect shrinks (and possibly surgeons) from being sued, rather than the well-being of people, or considering real people.

Very much so >.< And while I intellectually can understand some of their questioning (wanting to make sure the patient is really serious and not faking or having some other issue), hearing some things just makes me want to shake them and ask what the heck they think they're doing. I mean, just going through the whole procedure takes enough mental strength as it is, they don't need to be bullied by the shrinks as well.

No surgery, don't really need and not satisfying enough results, plus I'd forget aftercare.

I think the 'not satisfying enough results' are pretty much the same for the other side ^^; though from what I've seen/read, MTF have slightly better results than FTM (choice of a tiny one that works... or a normal-sized one that doesn't work, and the urinary tract problems are enough to make me cross my legs and go nopenopenope), but again I might have slightly one-sided information.

No one wanted to see how "convincing" or stereotypical I would be as a girl. Or how feminine I was, or how heterosexual I was or anything like that. The Benjamin SOC are a relic themselves, but what the shrinks did before that is a fossil, if you find one like that, run for the hills, there's more enlightened people. And I still have a poor opinion of the shrinks I did meet.

Yeah =/ I think that the most amusing thing (in hindsight) that I've heard was that same shrink asking an openly bi FTM how he'd have sex with guys in the future... cos the scrotum would be in the way, wouldn't it? The guy just LOOKED at the shrink, going "umm, the same way that other guys have sex?"
(And if that's TMI, just say so and I'll edit it away >.< I'm sometimes bad with judging that)

Historically. There was one vote per family unit and one 'property' per family unit because this is how the world worked back then, just family units rather than individuals. It probably was unfair that management fell uniquely in the hands of men, but it wasn't some ploy to make women helpless, they expected couples to be partners, not hostages and kidnappers.

It might not have been, but it did take several centuries for lawmakers to wake up and fix the problems those laws had. Also, if the husband died without any adult sons in the family, the family unit didn't have their 'one vote' either, AFAIK. And while many countries did have widows being a lot more free to make their own way, the majority of widows were -- unless upper class enough to not have to work -- more or less forced to find a new husband to take care of them.
(Of course, widowers with children were more or less forced to find a new wife to take care of the household and said children -- unless they had daughters old enough to do the job.)

The change from long to short also hinders me when I type. For a day or two it feels very awkward because I'm used to my long nails (it's more lazyness than choice, but I embraced it anyway - I just stopped biting my nails and they kept growing). If I worked manual labor, they probably would break more often and force me to not keep them as long.

That one I can agree with =) And yeah, I tend to forget my nails as well, though I generally keep them short out of practical reasons -- I'm somewhat thoughtless in my movements and have on several occasions ended up cutting myself on my own nails ^^; or accidentally poking my own eye.

This one isn't an answer to a quote. Have you remarked how much % of kids fit the pattern of boy = short hair (like army short) and girl = long hair? It's like nearly 100%, and those are kids who can speak their mind and tell their parents (you could excuse a 3 years old from not being able to voice their opinion, but I'm talking 5-12 range). Why are the parents so damn conformist through their kids? It's like if the adult woman section of clothing was just as pink as the toddler/little girl section (and it's about half or more pink).

I have no idea, and it annoys the heck out of me. When my son was a toddler, his favourite garment was a hot pink velour dress. Probably cos it was brightly coloured and because of how the material felt. Sadly, the whole 'that colour's not for boys D:" thing stopped him from wearing it -- though he completely rebelled once he became a teen and now he's got several hot pink t-shirts ^^; When he was ten or so, he asked me to find him a skirt like the ones I tend to wear at home... cos they're comfortable. Unfortunately, that type (long and soft-material-ed) wasn't available in his size, so I'd have to sew one, and I never got around to doing it ^^;
(Some people, reading that, would probably go 'yep, that's a gay kid', but... not really, no ^^; He's had the same girlfriend now for the past three or four years. He's just open-minded.)

I'm somewhat lucky in that my town is 'overrun' by goth, metal and other alternative people, so there's plenty of guys here wearing 'feminine' clothes (some even skirts), having long hair and using make-up -- though maybe not in the 'normal' way ^_~ -- so people have more or less started to get used to it. Sure, they tend to do double-takes and/or stare, but then usually go, "Oh, it's just one of those guys again. Never mind."
I used to belong to the goth category when I was younger... Then I got lazy about it all, and now I often don't bother 'dressing up' even when I go to events. I still have waist-long hair and mostly black clothes, and I still like the music, but that's about it ^^;

Imagine the Healer's Culottes design on a male. It's a micro skirt (and until you get the lv 50 AF Robe, you're very skimpy). In the name of equality, I wouldn't mind that one bit.

Sadly, guys get boxers xD I remember when I first got those... was using a bliaud as chestpiece, and... it really looked as though I'd forgotten my trousers when I left home that morning. Those boxers quickly got glamoured over into something else xD

I don't tend to glamour skimpy stuff much, but the coliseum shawl just fell on my lv 45 WHM.

I do tend to glamour some skimpy stuff, especially back before I used my first Fantasia. I realized at some point that my skin colour was almost exactly Kobold Brown, so if I dyed a pair of tights Kobold Brown, I could look completely nekkid ^^; Sadly, that doesn't work nearly as well on Auri due to the hip scales. But most of my jobs tend to provide some form of eyecandy. Like my current tank glamour.

That stuff doesn't count I can tolerate the wwe rowdy piper look because hot rod was one of my favorite wrestlers, I am talking about something much worse than that.

I mean when is content stepping over the line we all cant get what we want how much does SE have to give to make everyone happy?

Out of curiosity, what do you mean with 'something much worse'?

And I don't consider it to be 'stepping over the line' asking for the same amount of content as female characters. Yes, I consider cosmetic outfits part of the content.
It doesn't necessarily have to be the exact same outfit, though it should IMO at least follow the same theme, but constantly seeing female characters get two outfits while male characters get one... it grates on my nerves.

asperger which i have

I tend to describe it as "body language dyslexia" to people who don't immediately know what it's about, because it's the simplest description I can think of. I'll admit that my asperger isn't as strong/intense as that of others, but on the other hand I have other diagnoses as well that muddle the field. (So while I definitely struggle with understanding what people mean and why they don't just say what they mean, I don't feel as much on the outside as to feel alien or robotic.) It does mean I have a tendency to obsess overly much on what the words mean, pointing out flaws in people's argument even when I know (on some level, at least) that they don't necessarily mean that word in its literal meaning ^^;

If I were to guess, the OP meant 'social disorder' in the title to imply the whole breaking social convention bit, such as when it comes to which clothes are 'appropriate'.
It's a shame that editing the title in the first post of a thread doesn't change the actual thread title >.< But I suppose that's what comes with a forum where the topic is integrated into the actual URL and you can't link to a thread using just the topic ID =/

there alot different between robes and dress. mage wear robes.

On the basic level, yes. And I agree that there's plenty of differences between the Warlock's Robe (and all those robes one wore below 50) and, for example, the Spring Dress... But then you have other "robes", such as Scylla's Robe of Healing or the Welkin Robe... and suddenly there's not really that much of a difference other than the fact that one is called a robe and the other is called a dress.