Looks like PLDs are clearing A4s.

[Billeffingmurray]

http://youtu.be/ZFOGI31CNVc

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

Well the first thing I have to say is....I feel bad for talking about them without someone from their raid group being here. I don't hold any ill will in my heart or mean to cause any drama with the words I say here, but from what I can tell:

Just like A3S when it was brand new, with a Paladin in the party each and every single person was/is walking on pins and needles with the best equipment to get the task done. I'd wager if each person were to make just two mistakes (whether it be weaponskills, cures, defensive cooldowns, placement and positioning, etc,) they will have caused the group to fail. It requires nothing short of perfection on every single attempt to ensure that it gets done, down to the very distance each person runs during X mechanic; which brings me to my next point. From what I can observe in videos and the stream the tanks have had to stay in their DPS stances for more than 80% of the encounter. That means 3.5 legs, the head, and all adds were dealt with while they were at their most vulnerable in order to complete the floor. I admit, they did switch to tank stances intermittently but a large....and at least from me, I mean a disturbingly large majority of the time they weren't in tanks stances. Throughout most of their attempts the tanks lost aggro to one another and the healers at times which caused the group to fail. I'd say the amount of wiggle room with a PLD/WAR right now is thinner than a human hair as compared to WAR/DRK. They're in the same position Zdenka and Blue Gartr were in with A3S. Too much time invested in attaining absolute perfection to give up.

Furthermore, I'd wager if you watch DRK/WAR setups complete A4S the entirety of the encounter will seem more structured, more predictable, and less strenuous to every player. While it might not seem like it, that's what the community is caught up on when regarding clears with PLD. It requires perfection in every sense of the word for it to even be possible....and that's with a Warrior (who brings the best possible toolkit to the encounter) as the other tank. I shudder to think of how DRK/PLD would perform.

Can it be done is the question everyone is asking.....this is proof that it can be.....at a later date (week/s at best and month/s at worst,) with an exponentially larger learning curve and performance demand. I can't help but commend them for beating it even just once and they provide the sort of group dynamic everyone should strive for when raiding. You can tell they care for one another, you can tell they're all nervous, you can tell they don't want to fail each other but they're ready to just keep trying and enjoy living. I just wish it wasn't so stressful for them.

[SpookyGhost]

Well the first thing I have to say is....

I think you're underestimating how much of a coordinated song and dance A4S is. DRK only makes things marginally easier with DA + Dark Mind, it doesn't take away the stress at all. Every mechanic has to be handled near flawlessly to meet the DPS check and allow for the sacrifices in the last phase, on top of the healers having very little mana to work with to rectify any mistakes. PLD certainly isn't optimal in terms of mitigation for this floor, but it's by no means a massive detriment.

[Lazka]

PLD certainly isn't optimal in terms of mitigation for this floor, but it's by no means a massive detriment.

but not imposible as many of in this forum say isnt?

[Billeffingmurray]

I'm still looking for a DRK + PLD video. If you find one please post it

[Ercapote]

I'm still looking for a DRK + PLD video. If you find one please post it

GL with that probably won't find any until the entire group can compensate the lost from not bringing a war and having a PLD

and even then a war has a obligate spot in the raid since they have everything and they all need a war but then everything is balance and the other tank classes aren't "bad" at all... (notice sarcasm)

[Shining_Tiger_Excalibur]

I think you're underestimating how much of a coordinated song and dance A4S is. DRK only makes things marginally easier with DA + Dark Mind, it doesn't take away the stress at all. Every mechanic has to be handled near flawlessly to meet the DPS check and allow for the sacrifices in the last phase, on top of the healers having very little mana to work with to rectify any mistakes. PLD certainly isn't optimal in terms of mitigation for this floor, but it's by no means a massive detriment.

Yeah I can see the kick in the pants healers have to deal with. I won't lie, I don't have the skill to do this even if I was BiS; also yeah, I do underestimate what A4s requires (you can tell as much by what I'm wearing on the lodestone, which makes for a good laugh too!) I can agree only a few things need to be changed for Paladin (I feel like a moron for making a suggestion thread a ways back.) Thankfully though, I'm not being paid to make those changes.

[Syzygian]

I think you're underestimating how much of a coordinated song and dance A4S is. DRK only makes things marginally easier with DA + Dark Mind, it doesn't take away the stress at all. Every mechanic has to be handled near flawlessly to meet the DPS check and allow for the sacrifices in the last phase, on top of the healers having very little mana to work with to rectify any mistakes. PLD certainly isn't optimal in terms of mitigation for this floor, but it's by no means a massive detriment.

Its not a question of mitigation but the DPS check, and DRK outdoes PLD DPS by a decent amount out of tank stance and by a landslide in tank stance (outdoing even WAR, if the slashing debuff is up on the DRK's target). I'd also say that Delirium is a much bigger deal there than DA DM.

[Alphras]

Can it be done is the question everyone is asking.....this is proof that it can be.....at a later date (week/s at best and month/s at worst,) with an exponentially larger learning curve and performance demand. I can't help but commend them for beating it even just once and they provide the sort of group dynamic everyone should strive for when raiding. You can tell they care for one another, you can tell they're all nervous, you can tell they don't want to fail each other but they're ready to just keep trying and enjoy living. I just wish it wasn't so stressful for them.

A4S is extremely stressful and demanding not matter which tanks you bring.

Edit: And to point one thing out, there are A4S clears with WAR/DRK on fflog which had quite a bit less tank dps contribution than this group.

[Rocond]

From what I can observe in videos and the stream the tanks have had to stay in their DPS stances for more than 80% of the encounter.

I just beat A4S on pld the other night and while I did spend some time in Sword Oath, I don't think it was 80%. I spent a lot of the fight in Shield Oath including the entire last phase. Pld just wasn't viable for World First clears and that doesn't even impact the majority of the population. This far into the gear grind any good group can beat this with a pld.

http://www.fflogs.com/rankings/7#bos...l&spec=Paladin

Four in total so far, probably a bit more, unless every successful PLD has logged (maybe? Not sure).

There are probably a lot more. I've never even heard of this site and cleared on pld.