BRDs not using WM -_-

[Dante_V]

So, I just got Minuet earlier today for my now Lv53 BRD. Here's the thing:

I was fortunate to have a few people join me in testing my BRD with Minuet, without Minuet, and doing both; we chose Ramuh Ex. Group was PLD, BRD, BLM, SMN, WHM, AST, MNK, DRG.

WITH:
I bounced between 6th and 7th on the hate list, never dropping Minuet.

WITHOUT:
I bounced between 5th and 6th on hate list, never using Minuet.

WITH and WITHOUT (meaning I dropped it for certain skills like Windbite and Venomous Bite):
I bounced between 4th and 5th on hate list.

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Just an FYI, the totals aren't relevant until 60. At 53 it will likely be a dps loss, at end game it is most certainly a net gain. I wouldn't pass judgment against it until you get the rest of your abilities.

[Viar]

For those trying to play stance-dancing BRD, you'd need to show a proof that your way is better as opposed to you plain sucking in WM.

@Jim_Berry, good job at choosing the one trial where BRD has to stay on the move the entire instance. Of course, in this case WM is a DPS loss, since to DPS in-between getting stunned for mechanics you'd actually need to use instant-cast weaponskills.

[Yhoiryo]

Yep, that's why all my weaponskills have a /facetarget line in the macro lol...

I don't even play brd anymore and this is sending off warning signals.

[RiceisNice]

Just an FYI, the totals aren't relevant until 60. At 53 it will likely be a dps loss, at end game it is most certainly a net gain. I wouldn't pass judgment against it until you get the rest of your abilities.

Even in concept alone it's been terribly implemented if a skill is quite literally useless when you gain it because it is a damage loss or does absolutely nothing to boost your damage or versatility.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

Even in concept alone it's been terribly implemented if a skill is quite literally useless when you gain it because it is a damage loss or does absolutely nothing to boost your damage or versatility.

if you properly stance dance and use buffs you can gain some DPS the moment you pick up WM.

don't immediately use your damage buffs. if you are in WM, then anytime you use either "Heavy Shot" or "Straight Shot" you will lose some damage. so turn off WM after you apply your damage over time. and then when it is time to re-apply damage over time, refresh Straight Shot and hit a damage buff before entering WM. and when DoT is ready, re-apply then exit WM again. using another damage buff before entering WM again. also, don't discount Internal Release.

even with a damage buff your DoT still doesn't match DoT applied without a damage buff while using WM.


all-in-all, like this i was able to notice an increase to damage output. at least, in the long run. i was able to produce a higher damage output as opposed to either never using WM or always using WM.



anyhow, the skill is plenty useful enough when you first get it. it just requires a good amount of effort.

[RiceisNice]

... and then when it is time to re-apply damage over time, refresh Straight Shot and hit a damage buff before entering WM. and when DoT is ready, re-apply then exit WM again. using another damage buff before entering WM again. also, don't discount Internal Release.

even with a damage buff your DoT still doesn't match DoT applied without a damage buff while using WM.

You can't exit out of WM that fast. Once you go beyond the initial pull, you're stuck in WM for 15 seconds out of the 18 second DoT duration if you're going into WM just to reapply it. You'll get a dps gain if you buff, barrage and heavy shot with both DoTs up then turn it off, but I wouldn't want to say the developers wanted that to be the intended use of Wanderer's Minuet when you get it, espesically when they themselves have showcased WM to be something that's supposed to increase your dps by keeping it active when you didn't need to move (but this isn't the case until 54, and definitely was not the case period on release)

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

You can't exit out of WM that fast. Once you go beyond the initial pull, you're stuck in WM for 15 seconds out of the 18 second DoT duration if you're going into WM just to reapply it. You'll get a dps gain if you buff, barrage and heavy shot with both DoTs up then turn it off, but I wouldn't want to say the developers wanted that to be the intended use of Wanderer's Minuet when you get it, espesically when they themselves have showcased WM to be something that's supposed to increase your dps by keeping it active when you didn't need to move (but this isn't the case until 54, and definitely was not the case period on release)

i mean when the DoT is ready to be re-applied WM will be ready to be removed.

either way, if you properly use WM when first getting it... one CAN reach a higher damage output. it just requires more effort then what some people would consider it to be worth.

and yes, when you get enough WM-exclusive actions it is possible to get a higher damage output then normal. even if you leave WM on 100% of the time. however, stance dancing and timing your attacks well enough can lead to an even greater damage output.

[RiceisNice]

i mean when the DoT is ready to be re-applied WM will be ready to be removed.
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But that means you're staying in WM while the DoTs are ticking, where it's a damage loss unless you get an usually large amount of bloodletter resets. And once you do remove WM, you're going to need to enable it again to reapply DoTs, causing a 15 second period where you can't take off WM. I'm not really following your reasoning because it doesn't make sense outside of pre-pull.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

But that means you're staying in WM while the DoTs are ticking, where it's a damage loss unless you get an usually large amount of bloodletter resets. And once you do remove WM, you're going to need to enable it again to reapply DoTs, causing a 15 second period where you can't take off WM. I'm not really following your reasoning because it doesn't make sense outside of pre-pull.

well... you can use your damage buffs in two ways. depending on what you are looking for, one way isn't necessarily better then the other. if you use your damage buff without WM, this will be higher DPS then it would be with the buff and WM active. that is, without factoring in DoT or any other WM actions beyond WM itself.

if you use the damage buff without WM and are stance dancing and are applying DoT with WM active, then you will be looking high damage without WM and low~medium with WM. if you use damage buff with WM and are stance dancing and are applying DoT with WM active, then you are looking at medium damage with WM and medium damage without WM. this is not factoring in any WM actions beyond WM itself.

in the long run, your average damage output would be about equal. but again, that is without factoring in any other WM actions aside from WM itself.



ANYHOW, all i know is that i can do more damage by toggling WM throughout an encounter as opposed to either always using it or never using it. and this is true even when very first obtaining WM.

[rappa]

A lot of theorycraft, but without logs, parsers and timeline. IMHO, is a s**t.