Dancer Tank!!!

[Duelle]

As mentioned earlier, it wouldn't need to be about fully evading attacks. I'd probably draw from WoW brewmaster monks or Wildstar tank stalkers. The former had a mechanic that allowed it to receive less direct damage; it was an 80-20 split where you took 80% of the damage on hit and the remaining 20% over time. They also had a buff that they'd gain from using certain abilities that increases their evasion rate. The idea can certainly work here. We just need to know where to look for inspiration.

[Anova]

I don't quite see how the tanks are the same. They certainly have similar functions: an enmity combo, a utility combo, a damage stance, a tank stance, a stun, group enmity, group area enmity, and then a couple unique buffs for their job. Any tank you make for this game is going to need those basic tools. If its aesthetics, that's your own thing. For me, it makes sense though for the person in heavy armor to be more survivable than the person wearing a bikini.

@duelle
That is an interesting tank idea and I'd like to see it implemented in ffxiv. The biggest concern is that the delayed damage tanks may eat in to healer dps times, which makes it a huge detriment to endgame groups and thereby unpopular in the meta. There's probably a few tricks and testing to find the best ratio of damage:delayed-damage, but it is something to be aware of when developing the idea.

[Calypsx]

Dancer Lilisette shows us there is no need for heavy armor if they can't even touch you.
https://youtu.be/3eg_Xz-OFyI?t=1m10s

I forgot to mention Jedi Shadow in SWTOR is another light/medium armored tank in mmorpgs, the list goes on.

[Freyyy]

Dancer Lilisette shows us there is no need for heavy armor if they can't even touch you.
https://youtu.be/3eg_Xz-OFyI?t=1m10s

Wow and they told me that FFXI was ugly. I find it quite good looking in this cutscene (yeah never played it and just watched a bunch of screenshots).

A light armor tank would be awesome. There is one in a lot of MMOs and when it's done right, they are pretty good tank classes with no mitigation issues at all.

[Shurrikhan]

I don't quite see how the tanks are the same. They certainly have similar functions: an enmity combo, a utility combo, a damage stance, a tank stance, a stun, group enmity, group area enmity, and then a couple unique buffs for their job. Any tank you make for this game is going to need those basic tools. If its aesthetics, that's your own thing. For me, it makes sense though for the person in heavy armor to be more survivable than the person wearing a bikini.

@duelle
That is an interesting tank idea and I'd like to see it implemented in ffxiv. The biggest concern is that the delayed damage tanks may eat in to healer dps times, which makes it a huge detriment to endgame groups and thereby unpopular in the meta. There's probably a few tricks and testing to find the best ratio of damage:delayed-damage, but it is something to be aware of when developing the idea.

I imagine it will end up with a balance and reception similar to Defiance's. Granted, a delay of damage increases eHP but by itself does not increase mitigation/healing efficiency. That said, this would almost certainly be paired with something else, or the evasion itself should have enough average benefit (it might well be that "something else").

On other fronts there are two other possible additions/revisions I think would help:
1. [Variable Glancing Blows] Revise the system for Blocks, Parries, and Dodges to be dependent on and affect enemy accuracy and accuracy to have an analog/percentile effect on damage, rather than a pure "hit" or "miss".

Make each "miss" a percentile dependent on the accuracy lacking, rather than having only 0% misses and 100% hits. Give Parries and Blocks both a 'Guard/Barrier' (a flat reduction of incoming damage and increase to personal Defense against said attack), and a 'Deflection/Evasion' component (reducing the accuracy of the enemy attack). Dodges normally carry only a 'Deflection/Evasion' component. (Crits,) Parries, Blocks, and Dodges are no longer categorically exclusive, and may stack. "Parry" stat replaced with "Guard" and "Deflection" stats. "Guard" increases the flat reduction, bonus to calculated defense, and the damage required to interrupt your casts "Deflection" increases the modifiers by which your own accuracy, AP, and weapon damage/block value may affect enemy accuracy. "Deflection" works as the go-to anti-tank-buster stat, and "Guard" as the smoothing/utility stat.
(Note: they might also be able to make use, though to lesser degree, of the Critical Strike and Determination stats, though Skill Speed would be a bit more difficult to find a place here for. (See below.))

2. [Helpful hidden RNG dynamics] Dodges, blocks, and parries work on a hidden eHP-esque resource system. Proc chances vary according to urgency and remaining resource. (More resource used to proc the evasion type with the most remaining eHP that would most closely prevent you from dropping below 15% HP.)

Dodges, block, and parries each have / share [undecided] a hidden eHP resource that is generated over time and with each normal proc, but may be drained to force a proc to prevent crucial damage. Evasion/mitigation resources will be tapped into according to(1) the %HP that you would otherwise reach, (2) the %HP that would otherwise be lost, and (3) current remaining eHP in the resource. Evasion/mitigation type will be automatically selected according to each criteria, aiming to most closely avoid dropping into critical health with the least resource.
As resource dwindles, overall proc chance and effects are reduced (at a lesser proportion).
The overall effect of this change is that evasion resources tend to go off more when you need them, but not necessarily more overall. Optimal use would revolve around relying on evasion/mitigation types only very occassionally, since there is no benefit for having excess resource, but proc chances and effects are somewhat reduced by having reduced resource. Inversely, though evasion/mitigation types will even then produce the same safety net as they do currently through more timely usage, working in the red will actually drop proc rates and efficiency beneath their current norms.
(Further, Critical Strike and Determination could also work well in this system, but so too could Skill Speed. Determination would increase overall efficiency, Critical Strike would have a chance to increase efficiency greatly, and Skill Speed could increase the speed at which resource is regenerated.)

And, if you really want lightly armored tank jobs to shine, put a natural evasion reduction on upper-defense armor types and then boost base general evasion slightly and/or give back Dexterity its mitigation/evasion-embonusing effects.


---> That said, I still just want Dancer as a highly versatile hybrid melee support with a few ranged opportunities, who simply can tank for a time.

[Duelle]

That is an interesting tank idea and I'd like to see it implemented in ffxiv. The biggest concern is that the delayed damage tanks may eat in to healer dps times, which makes it a huge detriment to endgame groups and thereby unpopular in the meta. There's probably a few tricks and testing to find the best ratio of damage:delayed-damage, but it is something to be aware of when developing the idea.

Here's more info on stagger if you're curious.

I won't go into how many things are wrong with the current meta, so off the top of my head giving the job on-demand self heals would be an option. Brewmasters have Purifying Brew to remove the "DoT" from Stagger, but it costs them a unit of Chi, which is their unique resource. You could give DNC something similar by having it consume steps/count as a finisher (if we were to use FFXI's step/finisher system).

[Shurrikhan]

Here's more info on stagger if you're curious.

I won't go into how many things are wrong with the current meta, so off the top of my head giving the job on-demand self heals would be an option. Brewmasters have Purifying Brew to remove the "DoT" from Stagger, but it costs them a unit of Chi, which is their unique resource. You could give DNC something similar by having it consume steps/count as a finisher (if we were to use FFXI's step/finisher system).

Could you explain a bit about the step/finisher system and your impressions on it/how it might work if adapted for XIV? Just if you think that system might have merit here, I mean; I wouldn't want to waste your time.

[Duelle]

Could you explain a bit about the step/finisher system and your impressions on it/how it might work if adapted for XIV? Just if you think that system might have merit here, I mean; I wouldn't want to waste your time.

I think a good starting point would be finishers being split between mitigation and attacks with special effects or that generate enmity. Assuming you were to give DNC something like the Stagger mechanic, you could then have one of the finishers remove the staggered damage at the cost of generated steps. If required healer attention is an issue, a HoT effect could be applied with it or implemented via a separate ability; could even make DNC's equivalent to Purifying Brew turn the staggered damage into a HoT.

The tricky thing would be just how steps should be generated. I'd probably design them as something to be constantly generated and consumed, as opposed to generating steps and pooling them like with Wrath stacks on WAR.

[Duelle]

Looking for input while trying to get this idea together. Barebones version for now:

Dancer

Weapon: Shawl. Note: DNC's style of fighting involves "iron cloth" techniques, where the shawl is moved, pulled and spun in such a way that it is capable of cutting flesh. And yes, these weapons would be made by weavers.

Core Mechanics: DNC is designed around generating finishing moves and consuming them to deal damage or mitigate incoming damage. Their primary method of mitigation is staggering damage (70:30 split). Good candidates for secondary mitigation would be parries (no samples presented) or self healing (Drain Samba).

Abilities
Animated Flourish - Increases enmity generated by your abilities for 30s. Cooldown: 20s. Only one Flourish effect can be active at all times.
Violent Flourish - Increases damage dealt by 25% for 30s. Cooldown: 20s. Only one Flourish effect can be active at all times.
Drain Samba - Converts 10% of the damage dealt by auto attacks to HP for 20s. Only one Samba effect can be active at all times.
Haste Samba - Increases skill speed by 10% for 20s. Only one Samba effect can be active at all times.
Feather Step - Increases evasion rate by 30%.
Steel Wing - Delivers an attack with a potency of 180. Can only be used after Evading, Grazing or Parrying an attack.
Perpetual Motion - Increases evasion rate by 75%, but converts all Evades into Grazes. Effect ends upon reuse.
--Graze - You barely evade attacks, causing 70% of the damage to happen instantly and the remaining 30% to be divided over 15 seconds.
Healing Waltz - Converts damage over time effect from Perpetual Motion into a HoT that heals for 20% of the projected total damage over 12 seconds.
Deflective Sweeps - Reduces damage taken from the next three attack by 40%. Cooldown: 60s.
Aplomb - Perfectly evade most attacks for 10s. Cooldown: 420s.

Notes:
- Unlike WAR's Wrath system, finishing moves (I'll think of a better name later) can be consumed piecemeal. I was thinking of setting the max at 5, with Flourishes requiring 3 finishing moves, Sambas would require 2 and Steps/Waltzes requiring 1.
- As probably noted, Flourishes are effects that mimic stances. Animated Flourish would be the default tank effect while Violent Flourish would allow the DNC to go into DPS mode as needed.
- Flourishes can be activated for free, but require 3 finishing moves for the effect to be refreshed.
- Adding to the above, Sambas also play similar roles, with Drain Samba being meant for tank upkeep (not burst drains like WAR and DRK have, but an effect that can be kept up full time for minimal healing over time).
- Perpetual Motion and Graze are meant to allow DNC to mitigate hits from enemies without having to wear heavy armor.
- Healing Waltz plays into this as well, since it converts staggered damage into a HoT. What would happen is your staggered debuff (indicating the amount of staggered damage) would vanish and you'd receive a Regen effect. Your stagger "count" would go back to 0, allowing you to continue to stagger damage while the HoT is still ticking.
- Aplomb is DNC's answer to Hallowed Ground and would be subject to the same limitations.

PS: Here's your stance-dancing tank. :O

[Alex_Lenderson]

Really silly concept. Would prefer dancer to be pure support.