Originally Posted by Kallera

There isn't going to be a console developed parser that won't be outdone by a PC developed parser eventually. It will cause the problem of scaling difficulty, as now the assumptions will be made of the performance of people that have access to whichever parser is updated for the latest content and creeping features developed by the PC fanbase. This can be far away from anything SE develops officially, and end up putting console players back in the same boat.

While we might have superior tools within the parser for PC, such as real time telegraphing of data that happened during the fight, the core functionality which is essentially a glorified calculator will remain exactly the same which is all we really need in most cases for the general player base. Everything else is icing on the cake for the min/maxers and technical people. As long as the core functionality is updated nothing else really matters too much.

So i don't get what you mean by scaling difficulty? Might be the way you worded it for my sleep deprived brain

Assuming you mean scaling difficulty of new content based on parsers, no it won't SE will continue to design content based on their decisions as they have always done. AKA Lv + ilv and whatever they deem suitable as an average DPS for that combination. A parser won't affect that as they do their own internal testing and likely won't change their method from what they do now.

If i'm wrong please elaborate on that

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Quite apart from anything rlse there are a lot of very good players on PS3/PS4 the very fact that console players were amoung those downing coil should be ample proof of that. The simple fact is that you do not need a parser to be good at this game, you simply need to know your skills and play regularly, and have the desire to do well.

You're failing to take into account that at least one person from of those teams was almost certainly parsing when the content was new given the odds virtually all statics have at least 1 PC player. Once the world firsts and those following within the month had come in and basically told everyone what to do chances are less, but generally statics do have one person parsing if one is available.

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I'm actually pretty surprised that anyone thinks that a parser is neccessary to learn to play well. I can see that if there is a specificdpsche k in a specific piece of end game content, a parser is a tool that would help identify specific things that the team could do to improve their collective dps, but that is a specific circumstance. In general play, I don't think a parser will help any more than a training dummy.

Not necessary no, but an indispensable tool to find out where you stand and help fine tune your level of play, don't forget where all the optimal rotations everyone uses come from, parsers and yes these rotations are considered "playing well"

Specific uses for only end game content? yeah.... try any kind of trial that has a form on DPS check when it's new, for example Bismark HM and EX for many players. Can't see where a parser is helpful there? or would you rather bang your head pointlessly against a wall with little progress rather than use a tool to help you find out whats wrong in detail?

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

In general play, I don't think a parser will help any more than a training dummy.

Yes because all content that involves a DPS check is standing still hitting a dummy primal/<insert enemy of your choice> with no form of mechanics or need to move...

Hint that's sarcasm If you really believe that you are very naive or ignorant.

Originally Posted by Chif

Yep from live litter.

Well, it will most likey be a while for anything. I wouldn't be surprised if it was late 3 early 4 before we even heard anything. And thats if they decide to do something. Most likely more silence if not.

Originally Posted by MentheusDreyar

Snip
If i'm wrong please elaborate on that

What I'm saying is that in order to provide a lasting challenge to the min maxers, SE made content that was..problematic, as in its been breaking the audience it was designed for. Some believe it had to do with Lucrezia's fast performance on FCOB and not wanting a repeat.

In no way am i blaming the players, my concern is on SE's design of boss fights, which would change if player knowledge of fight statistics is now a factor. If said min/maxers are using methods that result in higher numbers, they are likely using strategies the rest of the playerbase is not using in their own content. So if someone wants to maintain interest in their meticulously designed raids, wouldn't they need to design fights that force said raiding strategies and resources upon non-raiders?

I get that people are saying that no one cares about the average dps doing his ex roulette, does his dps, and leaves without fanfare and comms. But thaere is nothing certain that this is going to last if parsers(and the critical discussion using them) get lifted. A DF when each run is as a race is going to be a lot more stressful an experience than what we have now.

actually I'm picking apart people aurguments with facts, and they can't factually say the things they do
1) assumpoing all good players parse or have a parse buddy
2) all ppl who down dontent is parsing in some or fasion
These are assumptions
as i stated it doesn't takew much fir people to want to exclude others, and some people do infact bitch people out for low numbers in df content. I Fc i was in, did just that.

Just because ot isn't as widespread at the moment doesn't mean it will happen. I seen people kicked for the most petty of reasons, I've been kicked for the most petty of reasons, I wouldn't put it past people to kick over parser data if one is adde, honestly people would do it now if parse wasn't a bannable offence.

Also people acting like you have to parse or fail in this game are nuts, I'm sorry if that is rude, but stating you need a parse to do any content its nuts. (and false)

idm debating, but going up to someone and say they are flat out wrong, or make assumptions they don't know what they talking about it a bit rude.

And again acting like having a parser is the second coming of jesus is just nuts. And yes a few people here are acting like that.

No one is depriving anyone anything all the info a parse gives you is visible to anyone just not in parse form.

And saying that people that do kick people out for playing poorly in their eyes, is a bit of an assumption.You can't factually say these people are the majority or minority. I was simply saying they do infact exist, and last thing id want or we need is the DF sysytem being used as the party finder system and excluding players, we already getting enough of that already we don't need to add more.

If I may ask, what is wrong about people bitching about low numbers in DF?

Clearly if dps was good they would have nothing to bitch about. They are doing it only because somebody is watching Neflix while cuddling their cat.

Originally Posted by Archaell

If I may ask, what is wrong about people bitching about low numbers in DF?

Clearly if dps was good they would have nothing to bitch about. They are doing it only because somebody is watching Neflix while cuddling their cat.

the assumption being that the accused is wrong. How does the player find out the liars? Would you have to make a thread in the forums? Report to a gm and hope "we were speedrunning" isn't a viable defense? Maybe the missed trick attack did justify whatever tongue lashing you received? Who can say?

Originally Posted by Kallera

the assumption being that the accused is wrong. How does the player find out the liars? Would you have to make a thread in the forums?

Look at it from this perspective:

When somebody is harassing you for low numbers you have several options to fix it. 1. Git gud or do your best if you are not being entirely focused. 2. Report them for harassment.

When somebody is willingly under-performing... you can't as easily fix it. Which means that you have to carry them through the content sweating your butt while doing their job - unless it is somebody extremely obvious or afking.

I would suggest a little experiment. Create 5 button macro and try to do few DF runs. During this time observe how many times you get called out and how many times you get kicked.

Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

actually I'm picking apart people aurguments with facts, and they can't factually say the things they do
1) assumpoing all good players parse or have a parse buddy
2) all ppl who down dontent is parsing in some or fasion
These are assumptions

No idea who this post is direct at? im gonna assume me? Maybe snip some quotes anyway...

And you continue to prove my assumption in my previous comment to be correct...

First off, you are not arguing with facts you are arguing with YOUR assumptions. Unless you play big brother to every single player you can't prove that neither of things are untrue, and apart from a select few no one pro parser is arguing those points anyway, so your post reeks of desperation to attempt to defend your flawed logic from something people aren't even claiming in the first place. Hell i can't even remember you making one factual point in any of your previous posts, which seems to be a common flaw in arguments against parsers, all assumptions and NO facts. Because that's all you have vs the many pro-parser facts many have been presented throughout the different threads. That seemingly go ignored.

Yes people will bitch and moan, and they have a right too, hell i have people doing it almost 24/7 in my many linkshell's and guess what? No one is getting kicked. This includes me.

Let me clear something up, parsing isn't bannable, abusing other players with it is. Removing others holding back the group from completing content is NOT abuse, it is a group decision to remove someone stopping completion, you can say what you want, but as long as we have a justified reason we can remove people with or without a parser. Heck i've been completely open about using a parser and told a guy he isn't performing enough and we have to remove him, guess what? I'm still waiting for my ban Harassment and abuse is clear to see. Removing a problematic group member is justified and won't result in a ban. Which is probably about 95% of all vote kicks.

Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

Also people acting like you have to parse or fail in this game are nuts, I'm sorry if that is rude, but stating you need a parse to do any content its nuts. (and false)

Are you actually reading this thread? or the many others? practically no one is claiming that!! Stop trying to take 1 or 2 people's comments way out of proportion to fuel your blatant fearmongering. All it's doing to making you look more like an idiot and less people are listening to you.

Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

No one is depriving anyone anything all the info a parse gives you is visible to anyone just not in parse form.

Yes by all means track the individual DPS of each party member, their average DPS, crit rate, misses, healing output, incoming/outgoing damage from that non-intelligible spam fest that is the battle log, all while performing your job in any meaningful degree as well as fight mechanics. Seriously? Do you actually listen to your self? Unless you have a computer processor for a brain you won't even be able to calculate any meaningful DPS while you're performing it, let alone your parties. And yes DPS not "damage" the only relevant damage in the game is damage per second.

The data in the battle log is practically useless in any given situation where the data is relevant without a parser because you simply cannot mentally keep up with the calculations needed especially while performing other tasks. Period

Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

and last thing id want or we need is the DF sysytem being used as the party finder system and excluding players, we already getting enough of that already we don't need to add more.

Still sticking with the baseless fearmongering eh? Even though surveys and studies and have shown the exact opposite after the introduction of a parser? And that there is no correlation between harassment and parsers? And unlike your assumptions these are facts.

Honestly the more you post the more it appears you are very naive, ignorant or a troll, take your pick

After 2 years playing this game I've seen the behavior you keep describing ONCE OR TWICE, and the same goes for EVERY OTHER MMO i've played, the fact that you keep suggesting every single MMO you've ever played is a cesspool of toxicity leads me to only one conclusion. Ever considered you are actually the problem here? You're the only common factor to what is allegedly the problem with the "general community" in those games in your opinion when literally no one else is supporting your claims.

Either way at this point im not taking anything you say seriously anymore. Just endless baseless, ignorant fearmongering....

Originally Posted by MentheusDreyar

You're failing to take into account that at least one person from of those teams was almost certainly

Only 'almost'? So, you didn't talk to every team that downed turn 5 to tell if they used a parser? So, in that case, post proof or retract your claim.

parsing when the content was new given the odds virtually all statics have at least 1 PC player. Once the world firsts and those following within the month had come in and basically told everyone what to do chances are less, but generally statics do have one person parsing if one is available.

I see, it's pure assumption on your part? Oh, I wasn't talking about world or server first, just the act of clearing turn 5 before it went all duty finder on us.

Not necessary no, but an indispensable tool to find out where you stand and help fine tune your level of play, don't forget where all the optimal rotations everyone uses come from, parsers and yes these rotations are considered "playing well"

Optimal rotations come from theorycrafting and practice, it's kind of sad to me that the only way you seem to be able to believe players can develope skill and good skill rotations is to listen to a parser.

Specific uses for only end game content? yeah.... try any kind of trial that has a form on DPS check when it's new, for example Bismark HM and EX for many players. Can't see where a parser is helpful there? or would you rather bang your head pointlessly against a wall with little progress rather than use a tool to help you find out whats wrong in detail?

No offense, but I said; "I can see that if there is a specific dps check in a specific piece of end game content, a parser is a tool that would help identify specific things that the team could do to improve their collective dps, but that is a specific circumstance." Doesn't that say that I can see where people might find it useful? So what's your beef.

Yes because all content that involves a DPS check is standing still hitting a dummy primal/<insert enemy of your choice> with no form of mechanics or need to move...

Hint that's sarcasm If you really believe that you are very naive or ignorant.

No, really? Sarcasm? I never would have guessed, I'm so glad you told me, or else I might have taken offence at your implied insult of ignorance. But hey, I'll let it go fornow. Tell me something. If you parse the same fight twice with different players and jobs, does it look the same? Given the different parameters of each fight I don't see how it can. The point being that to prefect a rotation, you don't need to be dodging mechanics that interrupt combos or positionals. Frankly with all the movement and dodging yourperfect rotation isn't happening, you have to adapt tocircumstance, and that requires learning through experience. A parser won't teach you that. Learning a proper rotation doesn't require a parser either. Do you honestly believe otherwise?