parse for ps4 users !

[Kallera]

How many mediocre tanks are getting bashed for losing some aggro as long as it doesn't cause a wipe?
How many mediocre healers are getting bashed for letting someone die, or for letting a debuff on someone for too long as long as it doesn't cause a wipe?
That's the max amount of mediocre DPS that might get bashed as long as it doesn't cause a wipe.

Because the idea of what is mediocre will get wider. And people will attempt to either enforce that in their parties or discourage what they call "carrying" those that don't meet their standards. Some may even suggest it here.

Im not denying the use of parsers, but the widespread prevalence of their numbers is unnerving.

[Totobi]

People just don't want to be held accountable for being bad and getting carried. That's the only thing i can take from people disagreeing with parsers.

"But people will harass others over parses!" Not if you take a tiny bit of damn effort to learn how to play the role you picked.

[Azazua_azura]

snipe

I'm not even saying that. I just know from experience what happens when ingame parser is added, ppl have e-peen constest on who can top dps

@ sirdarts

What you are failing to understand is the replies you the questions. As any raider keeps forgetting, you can't factually say people don't care about dps/how well people play in DF. From personal experience people do care. I was also stating personal opinion. People keep stating their is nothing to aid in their improvement, when that isn't true. Infact how parser get their data is where it comes from, the battle log.

@ jamain

my info/stuiff has never been about raiding, but the wish/will to improve your class. All a parser does it make the battke log info "easier to read" << subjective. Also your mixing up rotattion with adpaptation not your rotation isn't really changing persay but you are picking what part you use due to the mobs movements

Also I raided in ff11 for a lil but this was before windower and parser might i add, and people was clearing content, and the raids I did ha did have dps checks, as did some hnm. Alot of the prime avatar fights were a dps check cuz prior to gear additions all hell broke loose after the avatar used their 2 hr. Infact 1 raid syustem in ff11 called dynamis was initself a dps check cuz you had a limit time to clear it before you existed with only geting a few time exstentions. Pretty much you had to kill waves of mobs + mini boss mobs to pop the main boss which had to be kills or raid was a bust now granted this was before enrage timers were added in ff11,



and the argument is more people picking between a hammer and a nailgun

If you gonna use some non game related anology try to make sure you use a correct one Parser data come from the battle log, which does have chat log text connected to it. Parser just amakes the info "easier to read" by collectively presenting it as a damage per second ratio.

Also you do kinda gotta understansd that alot of ppl did infact comre from WoW which had crazy addons, which did infact tell you how to play. Ones that told you ur rotation for any given fight/spec, one told you where to stand in certain bosses/ mechanics, ones that told you to not stand in fire.

People got used to those addons and possible not used to playing w/o them here.

Also do kee-p in mind that I do know what I am talking about, i just have a hard time expressing it cuz of my Austism spectrum stuff. :/

Not fun, trying to share my opinion or give sound advice (which isn't bad advice as that was how this were done in early gaming) and being treated like crap over it.

The thing is though if you add tools to the game people will use them, it wouldn't matter if it was df, pf, raid content,non-raid content. People will use it to exclude players they find as bad in the eyes of what the tool says. It does happen already, I can't tell you how many times I have seen people kicked or belittled about how they play even when content is being cleared. Like i said before I was kicked out of neverreap though we was clearing it when i didn't put dots on 1 mob set.

I was put on blast as a fresh tank for not pulling fast enough.

You guys need to go back to history class on how humans think, we have no trouble excluding anyone for any reason.
It is also in poor taste to witch hunt people for "being carried" as long as the person isn't afk that are participating.

For me personally numbers in a game are arbitrary, as long as the mobs hp goes down at a decent rate i could care less about each party members personal dps.

the only thing that bugs me is when players are undergeared or use off role gear. (more talking archers with mage gear) which is basics of rpg. And even then i try to be nice about it abd only kick the person if they have a bad attitude.

Dps comes from an multiple factors: gear, stats, experience. Players who put out high numbers are those who are well geared, have good understanding of their job/role, and know the content extremely well. As in they are geared for the content know what to use, when to use it. They know when and where to dodge for all attacks.'

Players who pull low number's chances are they are still learning their job/role, still learning the content. But also some other factores as their net speed/ system set up may not be the greatest. In worst case senario, they are trolling or lazy.

I don't want ingame parser because I do not want to see the community turn into WoWs or DCUO or heck ff11 from 2009-2011, and become exlusionary even in df content, which would happen, anyone who denies this fact really shelters themselves from the rest of the community or didn't play enough mmo to notice.

And for me, i DISPISE being "carried" i think it is a hit in the taco to be carriedn, cuz i pride myself in being a gamer.

@ jamein

just a quick bit of info, you can't really judge the "top raiders" as "top dps" << subjective. For all you know the top dos players are non raiders on console, and just simply don't give a dam. Just because i don't use a parser (though i have used 1 before which you kinda keep missing) doesn't mean i don't know how they work. Thing is anything user-made is up to scrutiny. For all you know every parser you ever used has been incorrect based on improper coding, i personally would never take anything user made for face value.
Proof of that has been found from incorrect calculations of stat caps, to different parsers giving different numbers.

I rather get my info from the official battle log text over unofficial parser.

[ShanaShirayuki]

The thing is though if you add tools to the game people will use them, it wouldn't matter if it was df, pf, raid content,non-raid content. People will use it to exclude players they find as bad in the eyes of what the tool says. It does happen already, I can't tell you how many times I have seen people kicked or belittled about how they play even when content is being cleared. Like i said before I was kicked out of neverreap though we was clearing it when i didn't put dots on 1 mob set.

Not fun, trying to share my opinion or give sound advice (which isn't bad advice as that was how this were done in early gaming) and being treated like crap over it

This argument of yours in generalizing all parser users as jackasses who will belittle and kick others needs to stop, otherwise I'll have to start doing it too to fit your generalization. You see where the problem is when you stick with a fallacy such as this?

Also, in regards to giving your opinion and being treated like crap, maybe you could try not being hypocritical? Specifically this:

I'm also tired of people with the attitude you have, that parsers are the end all be all of gaming. And what i said is the time tested way of figuring out rotations well before the internet, so you myfriend are in the wrong there. Tools are well and good, but people are so relient on them it sad. I also never once mentioned anything about individual damage of skill = top dps. How dod you even come up with that?

And this:

and cuz I'm sick of your attitude, and people with your attitude, my 27 years of playing games well before the internet, trump yous any anyone post WoW mmo experience. So please stop pulling arguments out your ass, and thinking any thing anyone says against parser being needed, is wrong.

[Azazua_azura]

This argument of yours in generalizing all parser users as jackasses who will belittle and kick others needs to stop, otherwise I'll have to start doing it too to fit your generalization.

I'm not generalizing parser user as jack asses, I'm saying facts on how the community in general will act when/if a parser is official. Instead of skimming my posts read it and think about it. Also mind not quoting a post that wasn't even directed at you, but someone who was infact ticking me off.


Sirdarts (who i was refering) keeps asking if people care or not about df content. Saying midicore players are not kicked ifcontent is being completed. Which isn't true.

People do get kicked from df content if they are not performing to the the person who is kicking them standards. To some it does matter how a person is playing regardless to content being cleared.

Whem i was in neverreap we was clearing it no problem is fast, the healer kept spaming me to use dots (even though i was) and didn't put dots on 1 set of mobs i was then kicked out for it.

Another case was some bad tank was poking fun at me for being a lil sick and loopy, i was being a lil silly but healing ok. The tank started to ask personal questions on age and gender, i asked why does it matter he started to say that he though i was an asshole dude or a weird gamer chick, and was leaning on asshole dude. He caused a wipe on the second boss and booted me. And yes i told people at start i was not feeling well but will do my best if i made a mistake i apologies.'


If you actually read my posts though, not once did i say "all parser users are assholes and kick people" Only time i refer to a parser user is when they make claims that parser are needed, and there is nothing in the game that helps. Which isn't true, which lies in how the parser actually works, which reads ouch each persons battle log and presents data. We already have that in the the chat box under the battle tab. All the parser does is gather it and present it as a ratio.

They also make claims that there is no way to improve with out a parser, which again isn't true. Practicing your job/role and the content helps you improve, so is asking for tips.

And, some parser users also generalize, non-parser users as people don't want a parser out of fear they are going to be kicked, because they lazy.
Which again isn't true, people like myself are not lazy we don't want one because of the general community reaction. Once a tool is put in people will use it, and they will infact exclude new players for not parsing high. Which is the last thing we need in DF. This games community is already becoming less and less new player friendly.

Just because some raiders don't care or parse df content, doesn't mean that is how the general community is.

I've experienced this in WoW, DCUO, and Aion. Aion being the worst and I played it for 6 mths before it became f2p.

@ sapphic i think your the only sane person in this thread as you present your side nicely.

In some way i agree with you wanting to play with good players, is what we all strive for. All jobs role are infact accountable for playing well, people do kick out other they think are not performing well, heck i kick out players who are undergeared or have incorrect gear.

What players are not wanting are elitist, (people who have rediculously high expectations and not newbie friend players) and start being exclusive in duty finder. We see a little bit of that all ready with speed runs vs non speed runs, or cs watching vs skipping.

Duty finder was suppose to all inclusive, it suppose to be a tool for people who don't play long or often enouigh to do content in a preformed party. But the general community does use it to exclude people much like how party finder is suppose to work.

Id also like to say I apologise if my posts imply that I'm being generalizing players, I don't mean to. Also understand I have a wide experience in mmo community mostly due to the fact i can play them 8+ hours a day. So i see alot of the community in df, sao i see alot of this attitude in sdf on any given data center.

[ShanaShirayuki]

@ sapphic i think your the only sane person in this thread as you present your side nicely.

And this is why no one will take what you say seriously, with backhanded compliments such as this. I agree with MentheusDreyar's last point, there have been many well articulated points made by pro parsing players and the only thing you can say is they're all insane for not agreeing with you.

[sirDarts]

Because the idea of what is mediocre will get wider. And people will attempt to either enforce that in their parties or discourage what they call "carrying" those that don't meet their standards. Some may even suggest it here.

Im not denying the use of parsers, but the widespread prevalence of their numbers is unnerving.

What I call mediocre, and would likely not change, is people who are not doing their jobs up to some sort of standard (tanks fully holding aggro, healers not removing DoTs/Debuffs or letting someone die), but still not causing a wipe.
People already now don't care even about BLATANT lack of DPS, as long as content is getting cleared (I have met ice mages where nobody said a thing for example).

Only once content is not getting cleared people mind.