parse for ps4 users !

[sirDarts]

the same way any online data is handled, you give the user a choice.

do I want to turn my parser on?
do I want to share this parser information with others?

Some seem to want to argue they have a right to see other's data. Personally, I don't mind either way, just being able to see my own information would be useful enough.

I wouldn't mind this, if there were separate queues for DF for these two kinds of people, and you could make PF where you can set the "show numbers" to always on.

Though keep in mind that most tanks and healers would go into the queue with parsers.

@ sirdarts
stop acting like games can't be played w/o parser. I play and improve just fine w/o 1.

Of course the game can be played without a parser. To some extent. But 90+% of Savage groups do use a parser. And I would bet that there would be no A4S clears without the use of parsers.
And of course you can be pretty good, and even gradually improve without a parser. But can most people do that?
Also keep in mind, that even those ice mages think that they "play and improve just fine w/o 1" and THAT is a problem. They think they are good, but they are not, so they don't search for ways to get better, they think that failures are always caused by their fellow DPS, and they are holding others back.

If a personal parser system is added people will use that as a shi starting reaction to a wipe. I can see someone like sirdarts saying things like "wtf did you guys parse on the dummy? then saying LIES cuz we wiped" who would then kick the other dps. That type of behavior shouldn't be accepted in duty finder. Infact 9 times outa 10 it isn't "low dps" that can cause a wipe its people not working together.

1) Don't put words into my mouth.
2) If the wipe was due to a fail of a DPS check, then it is 90+% of the time the fault of the DPS. Now you can just try and try again, and bash your head against a wall, or vote abandon. With a parser you could see who is having issues, find out why he is having issues, and find ways to fix it. If it can't be fixed, you just replace ONE player, don't have to ditch the whole group.
3) Why is it OK to kick a tank that's underperforming, losing agro and causing wipes? Why is it OK to kick a healer who doesn't heal right causing wipe? Why is it not OK to kick a DPS that's not doing enough DPS and causing wipes? ANSWER THIS!

Remember dps is dependent on too many factors, and should be a judgment call on who is good or not. Someone with a high dps can just be as much cause for a wipe then the supposed low dps. Alot of it comes from learning the content, not just the class. And learning the content comes from grinding it and experimenting when to push yourself and when to pull back.

OF COURSE it depends on the content, that's why we are mostly talking about content with DPS checks, like for example Bismarck HM. You know that story trial, with a small DPS check, that often causes 6 wipes per attempt exactly on this one DPS check. And there are little to no mechanics in this phase. So yeah...

And lastly having a paser system will not do any benefits, people who want to improve do improve regardless, people who don't, won't. Enforcing a parser will not change that. What it will do is is create exclusion in DF, which is the last thing we need. As parser systems are not very newbie friendly so if you have new players (who will not parse high as their are learning) people would just boot them, and site "difference in playstyle" as reason.

People who don't know they have to improve will never improve. And they will never know they need to improve without a parser. Once again, most people think they are the best they can be, even the ice mages, even the WM-free bards, even the 1-2-3 Dragoons.
You are splitting players into 2 groups, people who want to improve and people who don't. But there are 3 groups, people who want to, people who don't want to, and people who don't know they should improve. And I am fairly certain the third group is the largest.
NOBODY cares about parser numbers in low level dungeons where people learn how to play! But people can EASILY pick up bad habits already there, that's why they should see their own numbers so they can see whether they are doing good or not.
NOBODY even cares about parser numbers in higher level content as long as this content is getting cleared.

[Dualgunner]

Again you don't need a parser to see numbers, the battle log also has numbers, infact it goes a step further YOU CAN SEE WHAT SKILLS PEOPLE USE!!! << like really.

Only problem I have with this is that the info is just presented, not compiled and refined into something simply and easily understood so I can take notes and make adjustments.

Yes, you don't *need* parsers, but I'm willing to bet they'd make life much easier.

[Mature]

I don't understand why some people are against this idea. It's just like a training mode. Just to help you improve. Simple as that . Such a simple request and people gets bitter about it.....

[Azazua_azura]

Only problem I have with this is that the info is just presented, not compiled and refined into something simply and easily understood so I can take notes and make adjustments.

Yes, you don't *need* parsers, but I'm willing to bet they'd make life much easier.

eh not for me. I have all my battle info turned off because the nyumber stuff got annoying and the battle log spam got annoying. Also erm......

How hard is it to read.

play A did skill 1 for 200 dmg
player b did skill 1 crit for210


I was more pointing that out to players who want parser to make a judgment call on who they feel is putting out low dps. If you can see what the other players are doing and read each dmg each skill they use. You pretty much exactly tell who is and isn't low.

Also idk how ppl find "i parse 300 dps" easy to follow, i read that and think "what the heck did they just say" I rather read the battle log then read that...

Sorry, but I'm sure people don't want to sit there analyzing and calculating the amount of damage someone's doing in order to meet a DPS check, while keeping the rest of the group waiting.

umm....... who said you have to ratio it out? its to see what skill each person uses and how much damage it is. More pointing out the WHAT SKILL THEY USE aspect of that not just damage. MEANING (i can't believe i have to actually explain this to pro parser people) you can see if they are 1) doing their rotation correctly abd 2) using buffs at decent times.

@ sidarts, no offence but you keep contradicting youself and you do come off that you would do just that. Why do you insist to force groups to have YOUR opinion. Also as i said there are TOO MANY FACTORS with a person dps to rely on a parser, to make a judgement call on who is playing well or not.

And also AGAIN all roles are judged equally tabks who can't tank are kicked if they hsave a poor attitude. (as in they act like you) healers who don't heal well are infact kicked if they have poor attitudes. And i know for a fact dps are infact kicked if they are not aiding the fights attacking mobs well.

Hell i was doing neverreap one day as a smn and was booted out of the duty for not using my dots on 1 set of mobs, which was just before the second boss. This was a personall choice as the mobs die fast and didn't want to waste dreadwyrm trance or deathflare. Infact the healer was spaming (caster) dots the whole time, even when i was using them.

i also got picked apart for using ifrit over garuda once, i like ifrit cuz of the buff he does.

I also find alot of that attitude to be in poor taste, but last thing this game needs is an official parser. Big reason is people like you dude.

Stop using df like it pf and cherry pick your party.

Parser don't tell you what net speed a person is, how often they ran the content, the ones i know of don;t tell you a persons skill use just reads their damage in a ratio of damage per second.

Also, people have been beating hardcore game content well before the invention of the parser, games have had dps checks well before the invention of the parser.

People beat it from practicing it, or as sirdarts put it "beating your head against the wall".

There is more to a wipe then low dps even on dps check fights. And why even replace a player? Why not help them out NICELY, instead of force feeding your opinion and playstyle on them.
@ the ppl who qouted me
ok ok so lemi get this straight.


1) you absolutely need to know who is on the top and bottum of the dps parse leaderboard even if the group beat the conten? (and quickly might i add.)

2) seeing each person individual hit damage on skills isn't good enough? or seeing the order of their skills/buffs isn't good enough?

I'm sorry im laughing so hard at that. All games you pretty much the same coding to produce hit miss crit damage. More so if they use similar universal engins like unreal or havok. Simply saying "it was a different game" is just....... weak as heck.

I trust the battle log more then a parser, and i trust a mobs hp bar more then that. It is not hard AT ALL to walk yourself up to a mob 10 levels above you anbd you fight it, and you read the battle log after. It literally tell you everything you need to know.

and just fyi engaged mob damage, your damage, other players damage, other mobs damage, player buffs, party player damage buffs etc are all on seperate filters.

the chat log has a buttload of filters, the battle log part has even more filters so really saying parser is needed is bull.

and also ff11 was a PS2 game first it also hard content, what you think players did?

japanese also play this game on consule not just pc how you think they beat content?

you guys act likie you can't beat content with out third party tools, that is why i'm against them. Learn to play with out one before asking for a tool to make it easier.

also TEAM WORK beats content in mmo. Not witch hunting which player you thought you carried.

You guys need to get off the petty mindset that 1 player is make or break. IT NEVER IS.

why the flying f do you guys consider playing a video game, doing hard content equals or gives you the right to witch hunt players using an inaccurate tool.

parser are inaccurate till the day they scan players, giving out every tiny bit of info that effects their dps.

this would mean:

tell each players net speed, where they live, how long they have been gaming, their home life, if their are sick or not, if they have a medical condition, how fresh their are to the game, how fresh they are to the job they are playing, how new to the content they are, heck the system they play on, or crosshotbar/hotbar set up, bonus stat allocation, food they use, skills they use, buffs they use.

When parser present all that data then i will think they are useful as everything i just listed does effect a persons dps.

all off that can effect how much dps a person pulls, and none of it is presented in a parser.




@ thread.

1) i do know what I'm talking about, i play a full spectrum of games and game styles,. I consider myself a relaxed hardcore player. As in I always strive to have the best gear, use the best food on the job im playing for the content i'm playing. I also ask people how I do and ask for tips. I spend time practicing my job/skill use/ buff use. I fully understand what a parser does, I also know how inaccurate it can be. Like I said play with out one then talk.

2) umm get good? I watch everyone in my groups all the time all all content, i see every skill and buff they use. If i see something off ask if they need any advice,
2.1) I also don't have any issue playing or avoid stuff.

3) none of what I said is based on fear mongering as i have only been vote kicked once in my time on ff14 for not using dots on 1 set of mobs in neverreap. I've been gaming WAY too long to have something as low dps, wipes etc. The only thing that does upset me, is when people try to play group content solo, I know for a fact when I play well or don't play well, I do not need some ratio'ed number number that fluixuates at any given time from the smallest of stuff to tell me i'm good or bad.

4) people like sirdarts have a poor attitude about players and how to play this game, and its people like them i would rather not see a official parser.
not everyone runs their parse in non raid content. With an official parser ALL content would be subjected to it, meaning players will cherry pick their groups across all content. (yes it does happen even in ff11 it happen) Which would make it harder for newer players to play, since their output is on display and some hothead will just verbally butcher them.




@ parser ready check idea

sound good on paper

hear is the reality:

check yes or be kicked.


And i very much know how parser work, DCUO had them I also asked the people in ff11 about them

so correct me if i'm wrong:

Parser and how they work:

you down load and run the program much like any addon and it will read the battle data and present it in a "easy to read" ratio based on over all output during fights

such as someone doing 300 dps is their are doing a ratio of 300 damage per second of a fight. Which the presentation of said info varies parser to parser. such as a graph or spread sheet.

so if i'm correct on that, how is it difficault to understand how they work?

[ShanaShirayuki]

Again you don't need a parser to see numbers, the battle log also has numbers, infact it goes a step further YOU CAN SEE WHAT SKILLS PEOPLE USE!!! << like really.

Sorry, but I'm sure people don't want to sit there analyzing and calculating the amount of damage someone's doing in order to meet a DPS check, while keeping the rest of the group waiting.

[Jamein]

@ sirdarts
stop acting like games can't be played w/o parser. I play and improve just fine w/o 1.

How do you know? In a raid with 7 other people, how do you KNOW that YOU are the one that is improving overall DPS? I'm not talking about a training dummy, anyone can hit a basic rotation, but how do you KNOW that in an actual raid you are not losing DPS during mechanics and others are not just picking up your slack. Here I will answer this for you, you don't know.
This is exactly where the problem is, there are MANY MANY players who think they are doing absolutely fine when they are not. This is why a parser is an excellent tool to see how well you stack up with other people.

The reason I dislike parser is what happen in DCUO everyone rolled as a dps stance of their power and didn't work together at all, in WoW players became very exclusionary, and in ff11 people started to rag on your play style if you gearswapped or not.

First point, this game isn't the same as those, all classes are pretty well balanced at their role and are interchangable the only issues HUGE issues I see in class balance right now are between the tanks and this ONLY matters for savage, which is a different ball park you SHOULD be aiming for the top doing end game.
The second point, again if you are not doing end game raids, no one is really going to care if you aren't pulling your max potential DPS, as long as DF groups don't fail no one really gives a crap, sure I facepalm at people who do sub 500 in A4 with eso gear but if the raid goes down I just don't bother saying a word, if they could see their own numbers maybe they will take it upon themselves to say hey I could do better.

I'm not insecure over my numbers, I personally have my battle info turned off but I still strive to improve, you don't need to be doing stuff wrong to seek to improve, and you don't need a parser to see your numbers to improve. You also don't need to have a parser to see what your party is doing.

You are correct you don't need to be doing stuff wrong, but it is impossible to know if any of the changes you make to your rotation or the things you change during a raid have ANY effect what-so-ever on your own personal DPS. A parser breaks down this information and is an excellent evaluation tool.

You can tell if mobs are not dying fast enough for starters, you can see everyone hits easy, and you can infact turn on a chat log battle text to show your attacks or your groups attacks. What I dislike and have been fighting against is plsayers who say you can't play a game with out a parser or you fail.

Well the first part is just nonsense and if you think that a raid dying faster is proof you personally are better then I have no idea what to say, it does NOT show YOU are better, it shows the group overall was better but having a parser can help a group improve drastically. If you think the battlelog is a valid way to see overall DPS then I have no idea what to even say to that, you expect players to go through the entire groups battlelog and add up the damage after a raid? Rather than use a parser for that information with a better breakdown? You need the overall DPS output not how much a certain attack hit for.
No one said you can't play this game without a parser, what a lot of people are saying is that a parser is a fantastic tool to help players improve and some of us like myself use it as a mini game during DF. I'll just always try to beat my own personal best and be the top DPS in the group, i don't go bragging about it after, I just like to have something to keep me more engaged in the fight. Same with my static I want to beat the crap out of my friends DPS, and when all of us are doing the same the overall group improves and it just adds an extra layer of fun.

If a personal parser system is added people will use that as a shi starting reaction to a wipe. I can see someone like sirdarts saying things like "wtf did you guys parse on the dummy? then saying LIES cuz we wiped" who would then kick the other dps. That type of behavior shouldn't be accepted in duty finder. Infact 9 times outa 10 it isn't "low dps" that can cause a wipe its people not working together.

Now you're going right into what most people are afraid of, the fact that if they have low DPS they can be kicked and sorry but there are a LOT of people using parsers even now, and they can just kick someone without saying a word if they see someone doing pathetic DPS, but that just doesn't happen often because in places where even if the DPS is low you can still clear it, no one really cares. They just down it and move on. Sure you will get your occasional asshole who does that but are you really going to keep an informative evaluation tool out of the hands of the entire community because some people are assholes? However what really annoys me is that tanks get chewed out for not holding aggro and can be kicked, healers get chewed out for not healing and wil be kicked, people who fail mechanics are kicked, but no one calls someone an asshole for this, but calling a DPS class out for doing no DPS even though they have the gear? THAT'S OUTRAGEOUS. Where did this sense of self entitlement come from with DPS classes?

Remember dps is dependent on too many factors, and should be a judgment call on who is good or not. Someone with a high dps can just be as much cause for a wipe then the supposed low dps. Alot of it comes from learning the content, not just the class. And learning the content comes from grinding it and experimenting when to push yourself and when to pull back.

Someone with high DPS can be a cause for wipes absolutely but that is not what we are talking about here, someone with high DPS through an entire raid generally has a good grasp on the mechanics due to the fact that if they can keep their DPS up even while dealing with mechanics it means they fully understand how to optimise and get the best out of the class during all parts of the raid. No one is saying they cant make a mistake though.

And lastly having a paser system will not do any benefits, people who want to improve do improve regardless, people who don't, won't. Enforcing a parser will not change that. What it will do is is create exclusion in DF, which is the last thing we need. As parser systems are not very newbie friendly so if you have new players (who will not parse high as their are learning) people would just boot them, and site "difference in playstyle" as reason.

How do they even know they need to improve?! If they are in Alex DF and it dies every time they can assume they are doing fine, but they might be doing pretty shitty or just 'ok' DPS. If they want to improve they need information and feedback to show what they did during the raid.
You think it will create exclusion, I think it'll just cause players to actually take into account what they do and at least improve to the standard they need for the DF groups, once they reach that standard (which is low for DF) then they can choose to improve or not, no one is gonna get kicked if a raid dies even if you are doing sub-par DPS. Players booting new players are just assholes parser or not, these people are not the majority and if they are then a parser isnt the problem, the community is.

Also you can't always say/prove that the parser is the reason behind optimal rotation and buff use, some of that came from experimentation on content and seeing how fast the mobs die.

Yes I can, you can learn a basic rotation in game with no problems. For an optimal rotation and buff use you need parser information to show if what you just changed in your rotation was a DPS increase or decrease, this is how all the openers were done for the classes, and how the rotations were perfected and how stat weights were calculated. Without the parser we are just working from what we THINK is the best rotation, not what we KNOW. How fast a mob dies doesn't tell you WHO is doing more DPS during a raid, unless you're talking about a solo mob in the world which is just ridiculous to even suggest for DPS evaluation.

[OPneedNerfs]

eh not for me. I have all my battle info turned off because the nyumber stuff got annoying and the battle log spam got annoying. Also erm......

How hard is it to read.

play A did skill 1 for 200 dmg
player b did skill 1 crit for210


I was more pointing that out to players who want parser to make a judgment call on who they feel is putting out low dps. If you can see what the other players are doing and read each dmg each skill they use. You pretty much exactly tell who is and isn't low.

Also idk how ppl find "i parse 300 dps" easy to follow, i read that and think "what the heck did they just say" I rather read the battle log then read that...

So... a Warrior does the highest DPS is that it? Considering Fell Cleave can reach 10k with crit and no other class can do that in 1 single hit.

And by that chain of thought, SMNs obviously are the worst DPS classes ever.

[Dualgunner]

eh not for me. I have all my battle info turned off because the nyumber stuff got annoying and the battle log spam got annoying. Also erm......

How hard is it to read.

play A did skill 1 for 200 dmg
player b did skill 1 crit for210


I was more pointing that out to players who want parser to make a judgment call on who they feel is putting out low dps. If you can see what the other players are doing and read each dmg each skill they use. You pretty much exactly tell who is and isn't low.

Also idk how ppl find "i parse 300 dps" easy to follow, i read that and think "what the heck did they just say" I rather read the battle log then read that...

If its just you attacking with no effects going out, then it's easier to read yes. But with 8 people all putting on and taking off effects, including enemies putting on and taking off effects, buffs and debuffs included everywhere, I wind up having too many different numbers in a log that's way too big.

[ArcyEvil]

So... a Warrior does the highest DPS is that it? Considering Fell Cleave can reach 10k with crit and no other class can do that in 1 single hit.

And by that chain of thought, SMNs obviously are the worst DPS classes ever.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The problem with ppl that are against parsers is that they don't even know what they talking about.

[ShanaShirayuki]

umm....... who said you have to ratio it out? its to see what skill each person uses and how much damage it is. More pointing out the WHAT SKILL THEY USE aspect of that not just damage. MEANING (i can't believe i have to actually explain this to pro parser people) you can see if they are 1) doing their rotation correctly abd 2) using buffs at decent times.

You still didn't address the time it would take to pay attention to everyone using the appropriate abilities at the right times to push DPS. Also people can't be watching everyone in a fight, there are mechanics, cooldowns, DoTs, buffs, etc. one has to deal with as well. Another thing is you're coming across as being very condescending, not good a way to try to prove a point.

And your fear mongering against pro parser players such as SirDarts just proves your argument isn't a very good one in the first place.