parse for ps4 users !

[Misutoraru]

It won't lead to more harassment, this point has already been proven.

I use to play a JRPG which wasn't introduce to western
Some how the meter were introduced
Time pass the community become purely relied on the meter
When ever someone want to discuss game relate topic that person have to post their number before they could speaks
Eventually it become post war of numbers
There are post war before the meter was introduced but it simply become a war zone after the meter
Of coz it is a very extreme example
All I want to say is, cultural differences, game mechanics, game environment, design...there are too many factors can vary a study
Ideal case of coz will be how do I improve? How you could get higher number, but we all know Peter pan live in a world that don't exist
ppl who misuse it is just like giving a sociopath a kitchen knife, adding fuel to a fire

[Archaell]

Here is the problem - parser rarely causes harassment when the player is top dps. The probability of getting harassad increases the same way player's performance decreases - healers and tanks have to live with this since start of the game. The more we delay parser the higher harassment wave it will cause.

Look at Bismark HM, people are starting to get really edgy when dps check fails. It gets cleared, but not without wipes and there are many failed runs. But everybody can clear it if they wait long enough for groups of better geared/skilled players.

Now imagine what would happen if the game's dps checks continued to increase? More fail groups. The gear is overboosted, maybe due to skill of player base, what is going to happen if developers stop putting so many stats between item levels? More wipes, increased frustration, increased need for parser. Right now game is so easy that in good enough group even toddler could reach Alex Savage.

[XiXiQ]

all that needs to be done is the parser is there for only the player to see. It's totally private, and they can choose to turn it on or not.

None of the current rules in regards to DPS meters need to change. It's still harrassment if you read someone else's numbers, or demand a certain DPS out of party members, or expect people to reveal their numbers to you etc.
No mentioning it when looking for PF members. Basically, your DPS numbers just isn't anyone else's business. End of story.

People who'd like to use it as a tool get to do so, and everyone else can mind their own beeswax.

[Ryel]

There is difference between harassment and segregation. If I make a pf and state people who can't parse over 1500 will be kicked, that is creating segregation. Telling someone they suck because they can't parse high is harassment.

You can already do this in fact players do this all the time.

"---- Ex No 100 Law bonus"
"A-s No first timers, know up to ---- phase"

I'm not sure how saying "---- Ex, be able to do 1500 DPS" is any different.

Even if that were the case and say 5-10 of these types of parties started showing up in the PF, would you mind telling me what exactly is stopping you from creating a party that doesn't set that as a requirement?

The problem with the harassment and segregation arguments is that those making them conveniently forget that it already happens and try to attribute the behavior to parsing.

We have no issue currently with calling out and kicking tanks / healers who aren't performing up to par but the second DPS accountability is brought up it's suddenly a huge community concern. We already have tons of PFs that have various leader set requirements ranging from "No first timers" to "X item on lock" and have had so since the launch of the game but someone brings up parsers and now it's a segregation issue?

Players won't be able to understand parsers? is that really an argument?

10 seconds worth of tooltips and a tutorial could easily solve that, they could even go the extra mile and add a guildhest explaining it, it's like people are jumping through every hoop imaginable to try to find new and inventive ways to prevent DPS players from trying to improve or be held accountable for their role, and i say DPS because once again we have zero issues as a community calling out and kicking tanks and healers currently and not only can nobody accurately explain why this is, they instead sit here and sheepishly avoid the issue because they know it throws a wrench into the whole counter argument.

"It will give players a tool to harasss others"

"The community will become toxic"

These keep getting tossed around as justification as if parsers haven't been a part of MMO culture for over a decade, when time and time again the largest player response if any is apathy. This isn't uncharted territory nor are any of the results hypotheticals, we already know what will happen and we've seen it many times before. Would it promote toxicity in this game? maybe for the first few weeks to a month as the community adjusts like they do any large shift in gameplay changes, like the WAR rework or the Wanderer's minuet addition to BRD but after time they'll recover, get over it and get used to it.

Private parsers? Hide your DPS?

Why would SE go through the trouble of creating an in-game addition that is inferior to a third party alternative? If anything that option would be more "toxic" because you'd have arguments about players trying to hide from criticism once the wipes hit.

Players who are likely to harass others over DPS are just as likely to harass them for other reasons, and some of them already do. However this is what the GM staff is for to report these issues so that they can be dealt with accordingly.

I don't say this to offend anyone, but please realize that many of the points that are being made as a counter argument against this have been dis-proven like... 9 years ago.

[Archaell]

all that needs to be done is the parser is there for only the player to see. It's totally private, and they can choose to turn it on or not.

We have discussed this many times. In group environment, when the whole group has to complete the work together, your numbers aren't your private matter.

Edit:

I am starting to think that we need an encounter that whould serve as a wake-up call. Bismark isn't good enough.

We need 4man trial, where healer and tank are locked in their own fight, while each of the dps has to finish dps check on their own target alone otherwise whole party wipes. Set the bar to average expected dps. We will see how many nerf threads will appear.

[sirDarts]

There is difference between harassment andsegregation. If I make a pf and state people who can't parse over 1500 will be kicked, that is creating segregation. Telling someone they suck because they can't parse high is harassment. This game is already completely anti community, we don't need to add anymore fire to it, we already have people refusing to help players learn content. And no I'm sorry watching a number doesn't help you, actually sitting down and trying different skills and using buffs at certain times help. Parse doesn't do that, it doesn't tell you "Hey because your number is 500 you should use this skill first, then this buff, followed up by this skill then that one to increase your number to 700." The player finds that out by actually practicing, it's like playing a fighting game and thinking basic free training will help you learn advanced combos for example, Street Fighter.

1) How are you supposed to know that you need to improve?
2) How are you supposed to know that the changes you made to your rotation improved your numbers?
3) How are you supposed to know how much is possible to pull in a real fight that includes mechanics?

Parser answers all these questions. So yeah... Parser is a tool that shows you that you need to practice, and that your practice is going the right way.
Trying to up your DPS without a Parser is like trying to improve your times as an athlete without a stopwatch.

And before you come with an argument (that was already here several times) that "who cares about numbers, as long as content is cleared"... CONTENT IS NOT getting cleared! STORY CONTENT at that!

[XiXiQ]

We have discussed this many times. In group environment, when the whole group has to complete the work together, your numbers aren't your private matter.

They are if the rules say so, and currently they do. That doesn't need to change if a player can see their own numbers.

If you wish to join a group and share, that's fine. people co-operating in this manner are hardly going to be reporting each other for DPS meter infringements.

But just as it is now, if you start using those numbers to harass people you've never met in DF, expect to get pinged for it.

[sirDarts]

They are if the rules say so, and currently they do. That doesn't need to change if a player can see their own numbers.

If you wish to join a group and share, that's fine. people co-operating in this manner are hardly going to be reporting each other for DPS meter infringements.

But just as it is now, if you start using those numbers to harass people you've never met in DF, expect to get pinged for it.

If you use ANYTHING to harass people, you will likely get pinged for it.
A parser does NOT change this.

[XiXiQ]

If you use ANYTHING to harass people, you will likely get pinged for it.
A parser does NOT change this.

no it doesn't. If you want SE to take parsers seriously, then you need to take into consideration the feelings of those who do not wish to use them, or to telegraph the information to others. The simple fact is, if people were comfortable with that idea, there'd be no opposition to any kind of parsers - yet there obviously is.

Compromise is the sensible solution.

[MentheusDreyar]

They are if the rules say so, and currently they do. That doesn't need to change if a player can see their own numbers.

If you wish to join a group and share, that's fine. people co-operating in this manner are hardly going to be reporting each other for DPS meter infringements.

But just as it is now, if you start using those numbers to harass people you've never met in DF, expect to get pinged for it.

Ermm no, because players "numbers" are in the battle log, they are technically there to be seen by anyone all a parser does is save us shifting through pages upon pages and doing manual calculations. The ONLY rule SE have is you can't abuse people, not that your number and contribution should be private. In ANY group situation withholding information necessary to the group is harassment if it is preventing your group from completing whatever they are doing. Calling out players that are clearly holding back the group is not harassment, at worst its criticism. It only becomes harassment in their eyes when they are removed for not being willing to contribute to the group which is their own problem. If they aren't going to play as a team they shouldn't be their in the first place. Period

And when a group fails a DPS and those unwilling to show their numbers refuse too, they WILL be kicked, or the group will just disband because there will be no solution to the problem if no one is willing to show their contribution unless someone is running an 3rd party parser where we can see which player is letting the group down. It is in the party's right to remove those responsible for failed runs if they are not willing to cooperate.