parse for ps4 users !

[Malevicton]

I'll quote myself, as it seems that some people think about parsers in a void, thus only seeing their benefits:


You just need to see the behavior of these players here and in every other MMO that has allowed or implemented open parsers (or here, even with the "don't talk about it" policy). It's not just a small number of people noticing this, otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion in every MMO out there.

Thing is, we don't have that conversation in other MMO's. I just googled "WoW recount harassment" for kicks and there was 1 result in the first page, called "Recount needs to die" that was about players being rude with recount. Nearly every post in that thread disagreed with the op. There were no other results on the front page, every other result was people asking for help with setup. Meanwhile, if you google for "FFxiv parser harassment" you get an absurd amount of threads saying pretty much what you're saying; that it's inevitable. This community has a particular fear of parsers that's exclusive. But other mmos, like WoW, that already have parsers? Look at their threads and you find nothing to support that. So I agree that we can look at our experiences in other MMOs to inform our decisions here, but apparently you and I have had very different experiences, and if google is worth anything, then your experience seems significantly less common.

There's also this (now pretty common) video from WoW where someone experimented with this type of stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas (for the people who don't wanna get dragged into an 11 minute video, someone made a new character and afk or autoattacked through all but the hardcore raid content and only got kicked once). That's been much more indicative of my experience, in both ffxiv and other mmos. Don't you guys remember all the people that would afk in LotA as soon as loot dropped? Sometimes they'd get votekicked, a lot of times people would just roll their eyes and move on. I'm sure anyone can cherrypick an example of parser harassment, but that doesn't mean there's any trend. If we look to other MMOs to help establish that trend, they do the opposite, they seem to support that there's no increase in harassment whatsoever.

[Yshnal]

Thing is, we don't have that conversation in other MMO's. I just googled "WoW recount harassment" for kicks and there was 1 result in the first page, called "Recount needs to die" that was about players being rude with recount. Nearly every post in that thread disagreed with the op. There were no other results on the front page, every other result was people asking for help with setup. Meanwhile, if you google for "FFxiv parser harassment" you get an absurd amount of threads saying pretty much what you're saying; that it's inevitable. This community has a particular fear of parsers that's exclusive. But other mmos, like WoW, that already have parsers? Look at their threads and you find nothing to support that. So I agree that we can look at our experiences in other MMOs to inform our decisions here, but apparently you and I have had very different experiences, and if google is worth anything, then your experience seems significantly less common.

Nice try but, as I remember having this discussion more than once before, I just did a search with "dps meters are bad" (those are the key words that end up appearing sooner or later) and I got plenty of results about related topics from: WoW, Rift, SWTOR, Tera, ESO... Not counting the ones on Reddit, Gamefaqs, et al., and FFXIV too, of course. And that just on the first page. So yes, this has been discussed to death in every MMO out there, with the same arguments from both parties. It's a fact that there's a rift in the MMO playerbase in that regard.

SE is trying to get a compromise with what they intend (or seem to) do. We should give ideas and support it for now, until we see how it works. Meanwhile, we all should just agree to disagree, be it those that want them, those that don't, and those that are in the middle.

[Malevicton]

Nice try but, as I remember having this discussion more than once before, I just did a search with "dps meters are bad" (those are the key words that end up appearing sooner or later) and I got plenty of results about related topics from: WoW, Rift, SWTOR, Tera, ESO... Not counting the ones on Reddit, Gamefaqs, et al., and FFXIV too, of course. And that just on the first page. So yes, this has been discussed to death in every MMO out there, with the same arguments from both parties. It's a fact that there's a rift in the MMO playerbase in that regard.

SE is trying to get a compromise with what they intend (or seem to) do. We should give ideas and support it for now, until we see how it works. Meanwhile, we all should just agree to disagree, be it those that want them, those that don't, and those that are in the middle.

First of all, are they bad is a completely different question from do they cause harassment, but alright, let's take a look at those topics shall we?

http://www.engadget.com/2014/12/12/t...-bad-for-mmos/ Is a series of rhetorical questions from a crafter's blog based on a comment they saw on a different thread. There are no comments on this thread to answer their self-serving rhetorical questions.

http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...eters-bad.html Everyone in this thread disagrees with the op.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/11547145531 This person says they've always been against parsers and have been playing WoW since beta. The post is made in 2014. That's a lot of play time. They say they've had 3 incidents with dps meters. 3. By 2014, since the beta. And that's from a person who's obviously trying their best to make meters sound bad, and all they can come up with is 3 incidents. (also pretty much everyone disagrees with this op as well)

3 more of the links are for ffxiv, which just further my point that this community is way more obsessed with meters than other communities. We don't even have a parser but we have more threads about parser harassment on the front page than other mmos.

Then there are 2 topics near the bottom of the page of people asking for meters.

Some of the sub-topics from the WoW recount topics are people asking how they can get better dps.

I remain unconvinced. I'm sure you've had the discussion more than once, and sure the topic exists, but it's not nearly as widespread as you seem to think. ffxiv has a weird fixation on it, way more than other mmos.