parse for ps4 users !

[Natashio]

Ignore me...I'm just tagging this thread cause I enjoy reading these conversations that have no end.

Though I'm going to make a prediction. The moment Naoki Yoshida drops an official parser for both PC and consoles this forum is going to get inundated with post of "IF YOU AIN'T DOING XXXX DPS for XXXX ENCOUNTER, JUST QUIT THE GAME!".

[_slowpoke_]

So, one more time: How do parsers cause or increase the amounts of negative behavior?

This so much. Parsers don't cause harassment. Harassers cause harassment. You can already report harassers.


Dear anti-parser folks, are you against the Internet? Why not? People use the Internet to harass, every day. You should be against the Internet. And basically every other form of communication ever invented by humankind, because, you know, harassment.

Sounds ridiculous? That's because it is. But that's quite literally the argument you are making. It's fallacious as hell.

Mind you I'm not saying harassment is a fact of life, whether in meatspace or online, we should quietly accept. Quite the opposite, we should actively fight it. But to do that, we need to fight harassers, and not the tools they happen to use. If you are so against harassment, petition SE to hire more GMs and implement better rules and mechanisms so harassers can get reported, warned, and/or banned both easier and faster. Step in if you see someone get harassed. Make harassment something that's not accepted within the greater community, and which is actively punished if it happens anyway.

But stop blaming some tool. A tool that does nothing but gather data & calculate numbers for you, because, you know, that's what computers are pretty good at (and humans suck at). It's up to you and your fellow players to give those numbers context and meaning. If the community is so shitty and toxic that people will use these numbers to harass each other, then they'd have done that without the numbers as well.

[Gilraen]

The biggest thing I take from the 'anti-parser' comments isn't so much 'hell no' as 'implement it intelligently, don't just drop it in'. If implemented right it won't be as readily abused by those who would abuse it.

[MentheusDreyar]

A lot of people like me are not against a parser in any way but get annoyed when people act like nobody has ever been harassed over it. Of course a parser has many benefits and of course harassment is harassment for whatever reason, but it's annoying to see some players (not referring to anyone in particular) play blind to the fact it's happened before just because they feel so strongly about having a parser implemented.

In response to the thread? Sure, add a parser, it doesn't really bother me in the slightest. (Some) of the community just needs to learn to stop being so aggressive over DPS numbers. There's a difference between saying 'hey, your DPS is a little low, you could improve by...' and swearing and trying to make someone feel useless.

I don't think anyone in any of the parser threads on either side are saying it never happens, it's just no where near as bad as they are making out. Either way a-hole will be a-holes with or without a parser, but the anti-parser crowd are using these minority to prevent the implementation of an incredibly useful that could help many of the players potentially improve without having to rely on other people or 3rd party software.

The fact is we can't even give real advice due to the fact we'd have to reveal we are using a parser and therefore risk getting banned trying to help. Which just leads to us kicking those that are messing up and coming off as "elitist" and "jerks".

Harassment is going to happen with or without parsers. Do you know what a no parser environment reinforces though? Pointing fingers without having a clue whose's fault it is. No parsers = no/less harassment? Nope. It's more often than not just as toxic if not more. In fact, with a parser people could actually defend themselves.

The no parsers environment reinforces ignorance, lazyness and makes the whole FFXIV scenario even more casual and ultimately reduces the amount of decent content because the dev's can't afford to make anything even remotely hard or "mid-core" apart from pushing it to the extremes with savage difficulty for a select few. Which is likely the reason we haven't got this content, there's no general skill level to balance it too because people either seem to suck or are good, there is hardly anyone between those two points when you compare them. Which causes everything to get nerfed to the ground.

Oh! look at that, i also found a possible solution to another community issue, lack of mid-core content!

[Whiteroom]

Ignore me...I'm just tagging this thread cause I enjoy reading these conversations that have no end.

Though I'm going to make a prediction. The moment Naoki Yoshida drops an official parser for both PC and consoles this forum is going to get inundated with post of "IF YOU AIN'T DOING XXXX DPS for XXXX ENCOUNTER, JUST QUIT THE GAME!".

While I would agree that there would definitely be a rocky period upon implementation, it would smooth out. I believe it would be all the more rocky due to how long its taken. But as said many times before, it would not mean SE oks harrasment.

[whiskeybravo]

If they were to implement in official parsing app, by what logic does it become a tool for harassment? You don't even know how it's going to be implemented.

IMO, the best way to implement it would be just personal dps. Something like a counter, similar to the gil counter, just a HUD element that can be moved around with a digital read out of dps at that moment. Additional feature would be a battle report that you can view after an instance/encounter that breaks down damage dealt, encounter time, things like crit rate or skill usage would be cool, relevant information that competes with 3rd party apps.

To minimize harassment there are 2 things: the only thing visible while in the encounter is your own dps meter. The battle report after the instance could be limited to your own damage, or it could show the groups numbers with names erased and only showing the role. That way it would be more difficult to harass someone after the fact (though, there is still the chat log and stuff that might show peoples name afterwards).

They only really need to develop something for ps4. It wouldn't be that advantageous to develop a PC app. For one, PC apps are free. SE would have to do everything the free apps can do, and hopefully a bit more, to get users to stop using 3rd party apps and use the official one. For PS4 there is no competition. They can sell us something (and I'd be willing to pay $15-20) that only gives the most basic of information. We need to give them some idea of how much could be earned vs the cost of design/implementation. If we could get enough ps4 users from enough servers to say, "vote on this link if you'd pay $10-20 for an official ps4 damage app", then we can help SE can weigh development cost vs ROI and maybe they can get something moving on it.

[MentheusDreyar]

Snip.

Except that doesn't really solve anything in context to group performance, especially PUGs. Unless i'm in a full party of people i know and trust a personal parser is practically useless in group content.

No one is going to be truthful about their numbers out of fear of being kicked/harassed. In the end it needs to be a full parser and not a half-assed attempt at a DPS meter otherwise the feedback is very situational and people will continue to use a 3rd party alternative to find out the real problem.

By all means they can implement their instanced personal parser for rotation testing, etc. but it will be useless for any actual group content because nothing is out in the open, we can't see the changes in peoples DPS/heals in real time as the situation changes, we can't judge what's causing the issue. We'll have virtually the same information we have now, which is next to nothing and that "something" is wrong.

[raelgun]

This is the biggest fallacy about parsing. All parsing is is a measurement of arbitrary numbers. As has been said, repeatedly, parsers don't get the big picture. Don't see the fight as it's happening, it just tallies the numbers and spits out an average.

Actually Parsers do give the big picture and gives a huge insight of information other the just DPS numbers, what you wrote has been one of the biggest tripe from anti parser crowd and has been proven wrong time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again.

Parsers give events and the time such events occurs, it gives how many times a skill was used, how much damage was absorbed and by what skill did that, it gives a huge amount of information including when people did such skills, please stop making up lies.

[raelgun]

I just can't take it anymore. A parser is not necessary to improve upon your rotation.
This is not WoW where you need to know how much uhh what did they call it? DKP or some crap?
Slowly as more people have come from other MMO's such as WoW to FFXIV this toxic mentality (that did not exist before) that parsers are necessary seems to continue to be the main point on conversation in the forums.

Few things wrong with your statement, everything in this world in real life and the game funny enough can only be improved upon by a metric to go by, take sprinters, yes they can run fast but its also important to know what number to do better then, from that number they figure out how to improve it such as fitness training or diet.

To improve, the whole word requires a metric to compare against, thats how that word is defined, if you do not have a metric to go by, how can you say you improved, you need evidence of this, science lives off of this notion.

Also most of this playerbase is from FF11 and not WoW so don't blame WoW players, this is FF players as its finest and WoW has nothing to do with this and the asinine behaviour from the I do what I want crowd has always been here.

[raelgun]

Also has a note in regards to why we have no VOIP, they say its to protect against a certain demographic of players but however the large reason would be they do not intent to invest money into a built in VOIP service as there are other tools like TS, vent and razercoms that people can use and for free, why compete against them, theres a built in one in WoW too and no one uses it, its a waste of an effort due to competition in the marketplace right now.