parse for ps4 users !

[Malevicton]

snip

again, though... This is another "I saw it happen once so obviously it's widespread and caused by parsers" both of which are pretty unfounded. Not to mention it makes me wonder what the drg's rotation was... Not all disagreements, even heated ones, are harassment. Harassment is rapidly becoming a buzzword like elitist or toxic, all three of which now basically refer to "behavior I didn't like to be around."

Assuming the people in your group were really just awful people though, how would a parser have made things worse? "omg your dps is terrible go kill yourself" would've just been "omg your dps is under 300 kill yourself." Obviously neither is good, but why is the latter worse?

So, one more time: How do parsers cause or increase the amounts of negative behavior?

[WinterLuna]

again, though... This is another "I saw it happen once so obviously it's widespread and caused by parsers" both of which are pretty unfounded. Not to mention it makes me wonder what the drg's rotation was... Not all disagreements, even heated ones, are harassment. Harassment is rapidly becoming a buzzword like elitist or toxic, all three of which now basically refer to "behavior I didn't like to be around."

Assuming the people in your group were really just awful people though, how would a parser have made things worse? "omg your dps is terrible go kill yourself" would've just been "omg your dps is under 300 kill yourself." Obviously neither is good, but why is the latter worse?

So, one more time: How do parsers cause or increase the amounts of negative behavior?

How can you assume I've seen it once and am making an assumption? I haven't seen it once. I've seen it time and time again, I just don't have the time to state every example.

The difference is the ability to see a number, and if that number isn't up to their standard. The guy in Fractal literally said 'your DPS numbers aren't good enough for me'. The DRG was clearly a fresh 60 with low level gear. If he wasn't parsing, he wouldn't have known his DPS (or mine) and probably wouldn't have said anything and just got on with the run.

I don't even have to argue against this when the very reason people get banned for using a parser is because they've been reported for harassment. Also, swearing, insulting, and trying to belittle someone is harassment, not a 'disagreement.'

[Malevicton]

How can you assume I've seen it once and am making an assumption? I haven't seen it once. I've seen it time and time again, I just don't have the time to state every example.

The difference is the ability to see a number, and if that number isn't up to their standard. The guy in Fractal literally said 'your DPS numbers aren't good enough for me'. The DRG was clearly a fresh 60 with low level gear. If he wasn't parsing, he wouldn't have known his DPS (or mine) and probably wouldn't have said anything and just got on with the run.

I don't even have to argue against this when the very reason people get banned for using a parser is because they've been reported for harassment.

So why would an official parser change anything? Harassment will still be reportable.

The assumption you were making was that parsing was relevant to the behavior. That those people would not have been rude if parsers were not involved. Why do you think that would be the case?

Insulting is harassment, but pretty minor. Swearing is not harassment. Belittling someone is, but if someone's actually doing terrible then it becomes harder to distinguishing between belittling and describing accurately what they're doing and how they're doing it.

[WinterLuna]

So why would an official parser change anything? Harassment will still be reportable.

The assumption you were making was that parsing was relevant to the behavior. That those people would not have been rude if parsers were not involved. Why do you think that would be the case?

As far as I'm aware, he would have had to tab out and check our DPS before acting that way. He went to the effort of looking at the DPS numbers before telling the DRG that his DPS was bad. I honestly believe that he was just trying to act like the tough guy with the 'you suck, you're getting kicked' because he had some numbers to go by to back him up. If he didn't have those, he probably wouldn't have even noticed.

[Malevicton]

snip

Notice how many ifs and personal opinions and assumptions about the other player and personal beliefs are all in this brief little paragraph? That's what I'm talking about. You think he wouldn't have noticed, you think he was putting on an act. Opinions are one thing, but do you expect this to convince anyone about anything if they don't already agree with you?

As far as I, as an outsider to this story, am concerned, it's very possible for you to be wrong about literally every single thing you just said. Obviously you trust your own opinions and perceptions, but how do I know that if I met this tank he wouldn't have a very different view of events? It's not unheard of (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...a-108-gear-LVL).

Also you don't have to alt tab.

My point was that people do get harrased because of parsers.

I haven't seen any evidence to that effect still. The part I'm most unconvinced of being the "because of." I'm sure people get harassed. I'm sure parsers get brought into it. How/why would a parser ever cause it?

[WinterLuna]

Notice how many ifs and personal opinions and assumptions about the other player and personal beliefs are all in this brief little paragraph? That's what I'm talking about. You think he wouldn't have noticed, you think he was putting on an act. Opinions are one thing, but do you expect this to convince anyone about anything if they don't already agree with you?


Also you don't have to alt tab.

The exact same can be said for you. You also think it wouldn't have made a difference whether a parser was used or not. Please don't use opinions and assumptions as a way to argue against me when your entire argument is also based on the same thing. I guess we will agree to disagree.

[Malevicton]

The exact same can be said for you. You also think it wouldn't have made a difference whether a parser was used or not. Please don't use opinions and assumptions as a way to argue against me when your entire argument is also based on the same thing. I guess we will agree to disagree.

But you were the one trying to convince me that that's how it would work. The process in this thread:

1)why not have parsers?
2)because harassment!
3)how do they cause harassment?
4)how do they not cause harassment?

Do you see how number 4 kinda jumps off topic? If we're talking about why not to implement a parser, and people say because of harassment, then they are making the positive claim that harassment and parsers have a causal relationship. If you're making a positive claim then the burden of proof is on you.

You can't tell me to prove why your own argument isn't true if you can't even provide any evidence that it is true.

[Whiteroom]

As far as I'm aware, he would have had to tab out and check our DPS before acting that way. He went to the effort of looking at the DPS numbers before telling the DRG that his DPS was bad.

I'll have to agree with Maleviction on his point. Harrassment with an official parser is the same as harassment with an unofficial parser. You get the ban for the harassment, not for the parser.

What would have changed were it an official parser in your example:
Everyone could have seen the numbers.
Maybe he was actually on point for his ilvl, and that could be proven.
Maybe he was actually playing really poorly, and might look to improve, given that he would actually know it, rather than have some nugget spewing it at him.

None of that forgives the nugget, but do you think his parser made him a nugget or was he already one. Was he emboldened knowing it was only him who could see the numbers and therefore not be called on it. As far as tabbing out, you must be able to get an overlay rather than something you tab to check.

Edit: by the way, I'm not arguing against the thread. My point was that people do get harrased because of parsers.

Do the majority (who get harrased), get harassed by because of parsers? Or because the parser shows sub par behavior on their part?

Ignoring for the moment, the foolish ones who don't know how to read a parser and apply it to the content.

[Felis]

What would have changed were it an official parser in your example:
Everyone could have seen the numbers.

The official parser the defs are working on is one that don't show your numbers to others

[Whiteroom]

The official parser the defs are working on is one that don't show your numbers to others

where did you get the info that they are working on one, please link.

@ ryel

I wasn't finished but at least from my experience there has been a raise in str geared tanks since the release of Alex savage due to the dps check on AS3 i believe, so to compensate for damage tanks been gearing in str.

STR tanks have been the standard since well before HW.