parse for ps4 users !

[Odett]

Oh you mean like the half dozen or so pro parsers in here who repeat themselves on a daily basis or the OP who continually and shamelessly bumps this thread daily with little or nothing new to add. If you aren't pro parser in here you aren't welcome obviously and there have been plenty of reasoned replies as to why parsers would be an issue in places like duty finder. It doesn't take many people to make the playing field toxic and I strongly believe that if they are approved that is exactly what will happen. The negatives to implementing official parsers outweigh the positives and is why many people are opposed to them.

You read my post and that's all you got out of it?

The only reason why so many players are repeating themselves is because their questions are always conveniently left unanswered (like you just did right now).

[Whiteroom]

Oh you mean like the half dozen or so pro parsers in here who repeat themselves on a daily basis or the OP who continually and shamelessly bumps this thread daily with little or nothing new to add. If you aren't pro parser in here you aren't welcome obviously and there have been plenty of reasoned replies as to why parsers would be an issue in places like duty finder. It doesn't take many people to make the playing field toxic and I strongly believe that if they are approved that is exactly what will happen. The negatives to implementing official parsers outweigh the positives and is why many people are opposed to them.

Could you list the negatives and positives as you see them? In point form. I believe we know most of the reasons behind each point this far into the thread.
I'm actually really interested in what you see in them, that you would rate them as being more negative than positive.

And please....... stop using level and endgame as part of credibility. thats just stupid.

Tbh, it does lend a little bit of credibility. It shows that you actually play all of the content, and therfore can understand better what people are saying when the referance certian content to make a point. It also shows that you have put in at least bit of time to your classes and should have a better understanding of how each role opperates in each bit of content. It would probably take less time and effort to take a clss from 50-60, than she has put into this thread is a bit telling. Now obviously we don't know how hard she played the game prior to HW, but it is a little extreme to not have one of the jobs fully leveled by now. So well it is not the be all and end all of credibility. It can be a bit telling.

[Kosmos992k]

Also (unless they are posting as an alt, then I am very sorry), how much credibility can you give to a person who doesn't have a single DoW/DoM job at 60 and has absolutely zero first-hand experience with the current endgame content?

Ah, once again, people belittling others rather than addressing points made.

This isn't an alt, I don't have any class/job at 60, and I've already stated why that is the case, I don't feel the need to do so again. What you are saying though is really wrong. You don't need a lvl 60 class/job to know about endgame content, or how you can develop a decent skill rotation. It seems many have forgotten that the ARR level cap was 50, and i have 5 classes/jobs at 50. I don't like end-game content in this game, I dislike the stress it induces on tanks and healers. However, I fail to see how my opinions can lack credibility because I don't have a level 60 job/class yet. The day before HW lanched you and I would both have had lvl 50 characters, would my opinion bear any less weight then? No, it wouldn't, so why should it now. You make it sound like something special happens between 50 and 60 that makes someone's opinion about parser use somehow more relevant than another. What a load of rubbish. If knowing how to learn your skills or develope a good rotation is now dependent on being level 60, how did anyone do it?

I've repeated stated I'm not talking about end-game content in any case, so whether I have done any end-game content in this game is irrelevant, of course this isn't my first mmorpg or rpg, and I dare say I've played RPGs in one form or another longer than many forum posters have been alive. Be that as it may, in this discussion and others before it, people have claimed over and over that parsers are necessary to overcome dps check in non-end-game content. I have stated quite a large number of times that I can see a role for such a tool when trying to overcome a specific dps check in end-game content. So I'm really not sure why you wish to harp on about my completion of any end game content, that would be highly relevsnt if I was commenting on end-game specifics, but since I'm not...

Still, thank you so much for switching to ad hominem mode, I do so love character assasination by Lodestone. I always wonder why it is that people switch to attacking me, perhaps it's because they can't argue my points, and so attempting to discredit me is an easier option?

[Eye_Gore]

However, I fail to see how my opinions can lack credibility because I don't have a level 60 job/class yet.

Its like that guy at work that has to tell someone every day how long he's been doing it for. Makes them feel just a bit more important. Anyways though, its too much stress on the system. Can't get one more retainer due to limitations imagine what a group wide parser would do.

[Whiteroom]

Still, thank you so much for switching to ad hominem mode, I do so love character assasination by Lodestone. I always wonder why it is that people switch to attacking me, perhaps it's because they can't argue my points, and so attempting to discredit me is an easier option?

Tbh, after pages of you ignoring all points against yours, making blanket statements, showing extreme bias, and intentinally misinterpting arguments, is it any wonder that people start wondering where you are viewing this from?

I think you need to learn more about human nature.

Also, this was the first thing you said to me in a parser thread, well reasoned counter? Or personal attack aimed at discrediting?

[Azazua_azura]

@ whiteroom

that just....... dumb....... It doesn't take a lvl 60 or alex savage to understand what is being said. Your taking a character for face value, and pretty muich stating no one with those requirements can make an opinion about the suggestion of something added that effects EVERYONE

and it scientifically not an assumption that the negatives out waight the positives. Just look at gaming, history, and human nature.

Male gamers in the pro leagues have infact excluded females stated they suck at games. (there has been a study on this google it)

Humans always find ways to exclude themselves to be better then someone else, from slavery to poverty, to skin color. (history google it)

It also happens in everygame parser are ok'ed people exclude others if given the tools to, people already exclude others for being new by either leaving or kicking them, there is no assumption that people will exclude others. People would do it now if parser were not against the ToS

[Azazua_azura]

Ppl clear new content because they are useing parse with out parse no 1 can clear any new content on time .I know ppl afraid from parse because they can't doing good dps and ppl will kick them as some ppl said ... Raiding ppl have parse already, screenshot ppl don't want it , I need answers from SE. if they not addit ,changing for pc ,easy for me .if they addit ineedit ppl who want to improve skills need it .as I said before this parse not lligle but 90% from pc user use it . I want ps4 user have all options same as pc to clear content if the parse not important why raiding ppl use it ????

npot everyone can calculate ration on the fly thats all a parser does. Not all raiders use them, because not all raiders are pc. A good portion of jp players are console and raid on console. I raided in content before the parser wars started back on ff11. Only post wow mmo parse to my understanding because i didn't hear of parser till post WoW.

@whiteroom

And that is absolutely true. People on the pro parse side are forgetting human nature. So i agree with that person as I've been saying that from the start. A fact people continue to undermind.
My stance has been DF exclusion and everyone 1 of the counter points against mine can be summed up as "you're a fear mongering idiot, who has no idea what she is talking about, you're just a troll." Even though what i stated was true. Which has been throught history human nature will use tools given to them to exclude others.

They also act like you NEED parser to play the game (again not true)

@ anc

its not your call to controll how a player can play their character, DF is suppose to be all inclusive, if you want to be exclusionary that is what pf is for.

And i'm sorry but i do have personal experience with the negativity on being exclusionary.
I quit WoW for a number a reasons and often went back to try again, one thing I DISPISE is addon/tool enforcement. I did want to give WoW a solid try because i found the game fun, but pretty much the commuinity kicked me out, tey mass reported me for being called a w-h-0-r-3. And heavily insulted me when i couldn't downlown their required addons, being called lazy at the least i can't repeat what the worstr of it was, All due to the pc was shared across 5 people.

I do not wanna sree that shi in ff14, I don't want people to experience what I was subjected to. I'm autistic ffs, I have a hard enough time in the real would from exclusion, i don't wanna see it in a video game of all places, its completely petty and childish to jump on people who don't meet your rediculous standards.

Shut the f up with the fear mongering finger pointing. ZYou pro parser people ruin perfectly fun games with ur rediculous mindsets. Its all numbers numbers numbers. sry but not all games are about numbers. If you guyts can't figure out a dps check w/o a tool how can you claim to be a gamer ><

Sorry i'm just fking pissed off from the level of immaturity of some people.

Having an exclusive DF is NOT something we need, if other players performance bug you that much, you have issues. Start playing with people of your opinion/mindset and stop forcing your stupid mindset on everyone.

If you need a parser to do a basic mathmatical ratio stop playing a game and go learn ratio calulations cuz that all a fking parser does does the math for you.

@ oddet

shut the f up you are being a dick to kosmos. I read all ur replies all you do is belittle them, stfu already and stop trying to one up kosmos, you act like my ex boyfriend........


@ whiteroom

sirdarts chif drayer i can't spell everyones name. Anc acts like it a bit. Pretty much every pro parser person who replied to me since i said VERY NICELY parser are not needed. I was picked apart, and called a troll. Even thought what I said was the truth, they just don't wanna see it as such. Or rather don't believe it.

You also can't rebuff what you stated, thats contradicting yourself.

this has been what has been (paraphrased)

1) parsers are needed for dps checks
2) anyone against parsers are scared their low dps will be kicked. (stated as all people who don't parse suck)
3) parser figure everything out from rotations to stat waights.
4) parser are needed to improve.
5) anyone against parser is a fear mongering troll
6) parser are not against the ToS


those are stated as facts time and time again. Thing is they are not facts at all, just assumptions/conjecture.

What is fact is human nature, people will set rediculous standards based on personal performance, and exclude anyone who can't reach it, this has been going on fir Eons. Given the tools and ideals people will exclude others. I don't care if people do it in pf. I don't want to see it in DF, and if a parser is put ingame all content will be subjected to it.

And people undermind the reality of that down playing it for their cause (again human nature) or going as far as to say, who cares if people are excluded it forces them to be better.

Thing is you can't force a person to learn, nor should you force your ideals/mindset/playstyle them.

I have autism, it effects my coordination, should I be excluded for something i can't control? Should i be treated poorly over something arbitrary?

I'm not lazy, and do everythinbg i can to improve. I'm not good at reading numarical data outside %'s geomarty and trig, so i should be penilized?

[Whiteroom]

@ whiteroom

that just....... dumb....... It doesn't take a lvl 60 or alex savage to understand what is being said. Your taking a character for face value, and pretty muich stating no one with those requirements can make an opinion about the suggestion of something added that effects EVERYONE

and it scientifically not an assumption that the negatives out waight the positives. Just look at gaming, history, and human nature.

Thank you.

Tbh, it does lend a little bit of credibility. It shows that you actually play all of the content, and therfore can understand better what people are saying when the referance certian content to make a point. It also shows that you have put in at least bit of time to your classes and should have a better understanding of how each role opperates in each bit of content. It would probably take less time and effort to take a clss from 50-60, than she has put into this thread is a bit telling. Now obviously we don't know how hard she played the game prior to HW, but it is a little extreme to not have one of the jobs fully leveled by now. So well it is not the be all and end all of credibility. It can be a bit telling.

Now read what I said, and read what you said. Then do that again. Do you see some inconsistancies with your response? It reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon someone on these forums has as their sig. I'm gonna go see if I can find it.
Found it: http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-06-07
Also, care to qualify that last part of your post I left in?

Also, who are the "THEY" who say you need a parser to play the game? Could you provide quotes please? I figure Chif has probably said it, but I haven't bothered with many of his posts. As far as I have seen, people are saying it would greatly improve troubleshooting, rotation testing, self improvement, and sorting out trolls, amongst other things.

You seem to be applying what you want people to be saying over what they actually are, and then arguing against that.


And a final, you seem to keep bringing up that people can easily do everything, or at least most things a parser can do, with the battle log. From that viewpoint you could say the game already has a very clumsy one, so why are you against a refined one, that allows everyone to use it, and is far less clumsy and easier to read?

[Archaell]

I agree that parser is going to affect all players no matter their level, so everyone sould be free to express their opinion and eat the flames for it.

...

Okay for now I am going to pretend that all your worst parser horror stories are going to happen. Do I think negatives outweigh positives in such a scenario?

... Nope.

If somebody is being harassed or excluded due to their performance I as a player am able to fix it.

If somebody is not playing properly no matter the reason - I as a player can't fix it for the lack of tools. There are exceptions like spotting out half-afking monk, but in most cases you can't tell which dps is causing fails or more work for the healer.

tl;dr I wouldn't say negatives outweigh positives.

[Odett]

Ah, once again, people belittling others rather than addressing points made.

You mean just like how you decided not to address any other point in the same post you're quoting?

However, I fail to see how my opinions can lack credibility because I don't have a level 60 job/class yet.

Because many players have pointed out the advantages of a parser in fights where a DPS has more responsibility than a tank or healer, like BisEX and Faust in A1S, and you've never made it a point to address that.

I've repeated stated I'm not talking about end-game content in any case, so whether I have done any end-game content in this game is irrelevant

That's completely fine, but at the same time you cannot use that to discredit every time someone makes a point about the boons of parsers in endgame content.

people have claimed over and over that parsers are necessary to overcome dps check in non-end-game content. I have stated quite a large number of times that I can see a role for such a tool when trying to overcome a specific dps check in end-game content.

I definitely agree with you on that, but it seems a little contradictory because you HAVE gotten defensive in previous posts whenever someone answers a post you've made opposing parser. Also, if players are having a discussion for parsers in endgame, and you reply with your reasons for not needing a parser for content that's not endgame, wouldn't that be a little off-topic. At the same time, I HAVE been in fights where slow DPS has caused wipes in where minimal or very little DPS checks are involved. Last week I helped out my friend in The Vault on the last boss. I was a WAR and she was a WHM. When the flames appeared, there would be 3 flames up before the "purge" attack, which led to her having to heal more. That's not really a big deal, but the fight would get so slow that her MP would run out (she knew when to use Shroud of Saints) because the DPS players were doing such a poor job. Yes, we could look at debuffs, buffs, DoT's, but at the same time, that's not really my job as a tank, you know? I shouldn't be looking out that the DPS players are performing as they should by constantly looking at buffs, dot's, and debuffs. If I do spot these things, and I know how to play the person's job, I can give out some helpful advice, but at the same time, if I don't have the slightest clue about how to play a job at lv 57-58 (like MCH, for example), I can't do much about that. Yes, in the past you've said that a bad player will be a bad player regardless of parser use or not, and I again completely agree with you on that, but there are also many players who think they're doing fine while they're not. Having numerical proof of low DPS values would reinforce someone's point when they say "Hey, we're not getting this fight done due to low DPS, and here are the numbers; let's work on fixing that".

I always wonder why it is that people switch to attacking me, perhaps it's because they can't argue my points, and so attempting to discredit me is an easier option?

This can go both ways, you know. I haven't seen you argue many of my points and instead you've chosen to focus on how I'm attacking you.