parse for ps4 users !

[Misutoraru]

I like how the Anti-Parser crowd still hasn't given an answer for why tanks/healers are held to a higher standard while DPS get a free pass on suboptimal performance (especially when there is content outside of raid environments that have DPS checks).

They don't
Underperformance dps either fail the dps check and got wipe or increase work load heavily for other member
Underperformance healer either can't keep up the heal and got wipe or slow down the whole party
Underperformance tank either can't hold aggro and got wipe or increase work load for healer
and this have nothing to do with the reason who against it
Cant persuade ppl against the meter with this reason
ppl against it mainly due to fear of harassment and we all know there will be,
The important key is how to implement the meter so you ppl will be happy but at the sametime minimised the harassment to keep other ppl happy

[seekified]

They don't
Underperformance dps either fail the dps check and got wipe or increase work load heavily for other member
Underperformance healer either can't keep up the heal and got wipe or slow down the whole party
Underperformance tank either can't hold aggro and got wipe or increase work load for healer
and this have nothing to do with the reason who against it
Cant persuade ppl against the meter with this reason
ppl against it mainly due to fear of harassment and we all know there will be,
The important key is how to implement the meter so you ppl will be happy but at the sametime minimised the harassment to keep other ppl happy

The number of places where bad DPS can directly result in a wipe due to mechanics are exceedingly few, though. Fights will take longer, sure, which may or may not indirectly result in a wipe, but a tank who can't tank or a healer who can't heal will result in your party dying in most cases. Damage dealers get away with being bad, not always, but definitely a lot more often than tanks and healers do.

[Misutoraru]

The number of places where bad DPS can directly result in a wipe due to mechanics are exceedingly few, though. Fights will take longer, sure, which may or may not indirectly result in a wipe, but a tank who can't tank or a healer who can't heal will result in your party dying in most cases. Damage dealers get away with being bad, not always, but definitely a lot more often than tanks and healers do.

I was just cherry picking :P
Coz I think the ppl against the meter is becoz of harassment
dps being carry or get away or not have nothing to do with the reason ppl against it
If ppl really want the meter to be implemented we should work on how to implement it to fulfil the both sides

[Misutoraru]

The number of places where bad DPS can directly result in a wipe due to mechanics are exceedingly few, though. Fights will take longer, sure, which may or may not indirectly result in a wipe, but a tank who can't tank or a healer who can't heal will result in your party dying in most cases. Damage dealers get away with being bad, not always, but definitely a lot more often than tanks and healers do.

The message is clear ppl support it mainly want something to improve out put
ppl against it mainly due to the possible misuse and harassment
Don't you thin if we all focus on how to implement a tool that will help improved output but won't lead to misuse and harassment is what we all want
Aren't this what we seeking for?

[seekified]

The message is clear ppl support it mainly want something to improve out put
ppl against it mainly due to the possible misuse and harassment
Don't you thin if we all focus on how to implement a tool that will help improved output but won't lead to misuse and harassment is what we all want
Aren't this what we seeking for?

Absolutely. I think it's true that harassment about DPS is already happening though, and it's pretty easy to notice when at least the party DPS isn't good, so I personally don't see increased harassment as an issue. And, as people have also said, studies have been done on this in other MMOs and haven't found any correlation between parsers and increased harassment.

If an ingame parser was presented in a positive way with hint windows and encouraging texts, people would get used to it pretty quickly. Or so I hope.

[MentheusDreyar]

The message is clear ppl support it mainly want something to improve out put
ppl against it mainly due to the possible misuse and harassment
Don't you thin if we all focus on how to implement a tool that will help improved output but won't lead to misuse and harassment is what we all want
Aren't this what we seeking for?

Except ultimately the ideas clash because of all the over-reacting fear mongering done by the anti parser crowd. We want a parser added so people can both improve and also so we can get an idea of the ability of the party in whatever group content we are doing and find out what's going wrong and how to fix it. And there's the basis of the problem, people seem to think they will get harassed "just because" when in reality they will only get "harassed" when they are not performing how the game expects them to, which frankly is a bar set so low a brainless monkey could meet it. And this is in itself a form of harassment to the rest of the party. And when it comes down to it, 1 person is not more important than the party as a whole.

What we can't seem to get them to realize is:

YOU WILL ONLY GET HARASSED IF YOU GIVE PEOPLE A REASON TO 99% OF THE TIME.

People are so afraid of being criticized while part of a group they would rather ruin the game for everyone else than accept any form of responsibility.

And, as people have also said, studies have been done on this in other MMOs and haven't found any correlation between parsers and increased harassment.

And sadly another thing the anti parser crowd ignore when its been proven over and over again because they have no legitimate argument against it

[Jetstream_Fox]

Don't need it, don't want it. It tells you a number that is all, it doesn't take the controller/keyboard from you and play the game for you. A number simple won't increase a players skill, if they don't know when to use a skill or understand the class a parse won't help them. Just because you can see your output doesn't mean you actually know how to increase output. The game needs a training environment I'll agree, but having something that will lead to abuse and player segregation isn't the way to go.

[seekified]

Don't need it, don't want it. It tells you a number that is all, it doesn't take the controller/keyboard from you and play the game for you. A number simple won't increase a players skill, if they don't know when to use a skill or understand the class a parse won't help them. Just because you can see your output doesn't mean you actually know how to increase output. The game needs a training environment I'll agree, but having something that will lead to abuse and player segregation isn't the way to go.

It won't lead to more harassment, this point has already been proven. It will lead to people asking themselves "I wonder why my number is much lower than this other person's number", which is a trigger for at least trying to get better, because in the end nobody wants to be bad.

I definitely think that there should be more ingame to train you in your job as well, ideally as part of your class guild progression, since apparently reading tooltips and whatnot either isn't enough or is something that a lot of people don't do on their own.

[Misutoraru]

Absolutely. I think it\\'s true that harassment so I personally don\\'t see increased harassment as an issue. And, as people have also said, studies have been done on this in other MMOs and haven\\'t found any correlation between parsers and increased harassment.

If an ingame parser was presented in a positive way with hint windows and encouraging texts, people would get used to it pretty quickly. Or so I hope.

The study...
I can made a study to bias high correlation, alternatively I could do the opposite
Meter and harassment is not simply meter implement vs harassment
There are complex condition, how to sample, and how strong the sample could represent other populations
we have to accept this tool is a sword with 2 blades
It will improve ppl skill, and it will be misuse as tool for harrassment
The sooner both side drop their extreme prejudge, the faster we could all work together to come up with something we all want

[Jetstream_Fox]

It won't lead to more harassment, this point has already been proven. It will lead to people asking themselves "I wonder why my number is much lower than this other person's number", which is a trigger for at least trying to get better, because in the end nobody wants to be bad.

I definitely think that there should be more ingame to train you in your job as well, ideally as part of your class guild progression, since apparently reading tooltips and whatnot either isn't enough or is something that a lot of people don't do on their own.

There is difference between harassment and segregation. If I make a pf and state people who can't parse over 1500 will be kicked, that is creating segregation. Telling someone they suck because they can't parse high is harassment. This game is already completely anti community, we don't need to add anymore fire to it, we already have people refusing to help players learn content. And no I'm sorry watching a number doesn't help you, actually sitting down and trying different skills and using buffs at certain times help. Parse doesn't do that, it doesn't tell you "Hey because your number is 500 you should use this skill first, then this buff, followed up by this skill then that one to increase your number to 700." The player finds that out by actually practicing, it's like playing a fighting game and thinking basic free training will help you learn advanced combos for example, Street Fighter.