parse for ps4 users !

[Ash_]

Want to see a horrible example where parsers are used actively to harass and discourage players from participating even on easy mode content daily? Go play aion. 5k dps for easy mode content or gtfo defines the exclusionary and elitist nature of the NA community on that game. And that's what it really comes down to, problems with the culture of NA communities in *insert mmo name here* exemplifying the worst of behaviour and why things like this should never be implemented.

My attitude is if content can be completed well enough, parsers aren't needed. And I'd rather not see this game's community go the direction of aion... just please no.

[Yshnal]

I'll quote myself, as it seems that some people think about parsers in a void, thus only seeing their benefits:

Not to mention that only a handful of players know how to properly use and read a parser.

You just need to see the behavior of these players here and in every other MMO that has allowed or implemented open parsers (or here, even with the "don't talk about it" policy). It's not just a small number of people noticing this, otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion in every MMO out there.

[sirDarts]

I'll quote myself, as it seems that some people think about parsers in a void, thus only seeing their benefits:


You just need to see the behavior of these players here and in every other MMO that has allowed or implemented open parsers (or here, even with the "don't talk about it" policy). It's not just a small number of people noticing this, otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion in every MMO out there.

I still don't understand that "argument" of yours. What do you mean by people not knowing how to use and read a parser?

[Sapphic]

I'll quote myself, as it seems that some people think about parsers in a void, thus only seeing their benefits:


You just need to see the behavior of these players here and in every other MMO that has allowed or implemented open parsers (or here, even with the "don't talk about it" policy). It's not just a small number of people noticing this, otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion in every MMO out there.

Yet it is just the same, small number of players who are vehemently against parsers. Maybe those getting called out when parsers are used should look at themselves instead of the tool.

Use you anecdotal evidence to answer this if you can, Why is it ok for a DPS to underperform and not be held acountable whereas a tank underperforming or a healer underperforming is? By refusing to answer it makes your points moot.

It is easy to spot a Tank or healer that is underperforming to the standard required to clear content. How do you know then if required DPS is 1000 per DPS and one is pulling 1000 DPS and the second is pulling 900? All situations lead to not completing the content. Or one DPS is pushing 1000 and the other is pushing 300 but believes vehemently that they are doing good?

[Malevicton]

I'll quote myself, as it seems that some people think about parsers in a void, thus only seeing their benefits:


You just need to see the behavior of these players here and in every other MMO that has allowed or implemented open parsers (or here, even with the "don't talk about it" policy). It's not just a small number of people noticing this, otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion in every MMO out there.

Thing is, we don't have that conversation in other MMO's. I just googled "WoW recount harassment" for kicks and there was 1 result in the first page, called "Recount needs to die" that was about players being rude with recount. Nearly every post in that thread disagreed with the op. There were no other results on the front page, every other result was people asking for help with setup. Meanwhile, if you google for "FFxiv parser harassment" you get an absurd amount of threads saying pretty much what you're saying; that it's inevitable. This community has a particular fear of parsers that's exclusive. But other mmos, like WoW, that already have parsers? Look at their threads and you find nothing to support that. So I agree that we can look at our experiences in other MMOs to inform our decisions here, but apparently you and I have had very different experiences, and if google is worth anything, then your experience seems significantly less common.

There's also this (now pretty common) video from WoW where someone experimented with this type of stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas (for the people who don't wanna get dragged into an 11 minute video, someone made a new character and afk or autoattacked through all but the hardcore raid content and only got kicked once). That's been much more indicative of my experience, in both ffxiv and other mmos. Don't you guys remember all the people that would afk in LotA as soon as loot dropped? Sometimes they'd get votekicked, a lot of times people would just roll their eyes and move on. I'm sure anyone can cherrypick an example of parser harassment, but that doesn't mean there's any trend. If we look to other MMOs to help establish that trend, they do the opposite, they seem to support that there's no increase in harassment whatsoever.

[_slowpoke_]

So, one more time: How do parsers cause or increase the amounts of negative behavior?

This so much. Parsers don't cause harassment. Harassers cause harassment. You can already report harassers.


Dear anti-parser folks, are you against the Internet? Why not? People use the Internet to harass, every day. You should be against the Internet. And basically every other form of communication ever invented by humankind, because, you know, harassment.

Sounds ridiculous? That's because it is. But that's quite literally the argument you are making. It's fallacious as hell.

Mind you I'm not saying harassment is a fact of life, whether in meatspace or online, we should quietly accept. Quite the opposite, we should actively fight it. But to do that, we need to fight harassers, and not the tools they happen to use. If you are so against harassment, petition SE to hire more GMs and implement better rules and mechanisms so harassers can get reported, warned, and/or banned both easier and faster. Step in if you see someone get harassed. Make harassment something that's not accepted within the greater community, and which is actively punished if it happens anyway.

But stop blaming some tool. A tool that does nothing but gather data & calculate numbers for you, because, you know, that's what computers are pretty good at (and humans suck at). It's up to you and your fellow players to give those numbers context and meaning. If the community is so shitty and toxic that people will use these numbers to harass each other, then they'd have done that without the numbers as well.

[Misutoraru]

This so much. Parsers don't cause harassment. Harassers cause harassment. You can already report harassers.

sames go for all the weapon in the world
it is a tool
it is the user intention causing all the trouble
no one can be sure it wont turn into a tool being misuse
and i can assure you, there are already ppl harassing other even without numbers
we can avoid harassment via internet by not using certain software, not going to certain website
it will help improve some ppl skills
it will also be misuse by jerk
it is inevitable
a tool always have two side
there are no argument
ppl who support it feel the good out weight the bad
ppl who against it feel the bad out weight the good
those are all number from their experience or internet search


we could tackle with harassment there are tons of way of solving
but at the end, SE is a company, economically efficient will always be a big concern
not implementing it is a way, extreme but effective
increase more GM to handle harassment is a way, is it efficient? SE will have to decide

there are no absolute right or wrong, in supporting it or against it
ppl who support it or against it have their own concern
each of us have our own ruler

[WinterLuna]

The thing is, I didn't once disagree with the thread. I said I can see why SE would be reluctant to implement one. I posted to share my experience with someone who was harrased since others seem to think it doesn't happen and kind of got jumped on like every other parser thread when someone even hints at disagreeing.

My entire reason for posting here was because some people act blind to the fact people get harrased because of their DPS, whether it be because of a parser or not. Nobody will ever know whether those numbers caused it or not. For whatever reason, it is still off putting for SE when they recieve harassment reports and the subject is because of a parser. Even if it made no difference whatsoever if a parser was implemented, that wasn't my point. I was just stating that people do get crap over them

[Archaell]

Let me bring a new point to this topic: Parser is a tool that prevents wipes and as the result prevents morons from getting offensive. Because morons will stay morons, I would even argue that it removes as much toxicity as it adds.

If the players see their own performance, they are better equiped to improve their skill. Better skill means less fails due to dps checks. Less fails means more players clear content without problems.

Group parser also tells you how much effort you have to put in the fights. If there is number x that the group has to do, then you might feel motivated to try harder to avoid failure. Right now you have to wait for the fails, which could be easily prevented if you knew group's output during the start of the fight.

[Azazua_azura]

I honestly see no need for a parser system in this or any mmo. You can see other players hit by hit damage, do you really need to calulate the ratio of damage per fight? And even still you see everyones damage on the mobs hp bar, so you can tell who is doing well or not from that if you havge the chat box damage for other players filtered. DCUO had added built in parser for content, it was a leaderboard set up and would calculate over all damagfe intake output and healiing, and rate each player. Thing is, it was easy to manipulate to be on top, simply but using aoe attacks and attack first. Which we are starting to see in ff14. In my opinion the wide spread use of parser are starting (and have) to lead players in bad habits, from STR tanks to players attacking on or before pulls no matter the content, tank or, tanks skill.

Str tank: tanks shouldn't be or need to gear in str, all that does is add dmg. A tank is meant to defend not attack. I can see off tank aka the dps tank gearing in str for that content, but in 4 man content its a pain, i have gotten hand cramps from str tanks, they have so lil hp they can't take enough hits between cures, so a healer would have to over heal just to keep up. (this happen to me alot as healer in experts)

attack on pull: this is becoming an issue in low level content where you have high level high geared players attacking right after the pull skill. Tanks have no time to set mobs up for things like overpoer (which is a frontal cone) unleash or, flash. AS mobs they just hit once with shield lob tomahawk or unmend the mobs go flying every which way before the tank could plant enmitity. If someone is a fresh tank this could be discouraging. More so if a random jerk starts to rag on you, (i'm not a fresh tank but this happen to me a few times this past week, on this character my tanks are low level and having to relearn them from playing main healer for a good 6 mnths)


Other behavior parser bring: people treat their content group like bottum rung employees where they have 1 chance to impress or their out. This is a bit discouraging, and does come off as selfish. We as gamers should be working together, we shouldn't be kicking players out of groups for low dps, take time to better the group as a whole this helps the group bond as they do something together rather go "you are the weakest link goodbye". Kick a person out for having a shitty attitude if anything.

Lastly the reason why i feel parser are not needed because its inconsistent, first off their user made which can be prone to errors. Another another onconsistent is who sets the bar for what is "good dps" everyone has different gear, hotbar lay outs, play style, internet speed which al factor into your damage output. Someone will always be better then you, whether they havge fastewr net speed, faster raction time using the best hq food to help out or have a hotbar set up they use with ease.

You also have randomness in how fights can be from where a tank pulls the mob, and who tyhe mob focuses when doing targeted attacks. Who also have random player behavior on who does the enviromental triggers in some content.


Here is the thing I am open minded, so if anyone can explain this w/o saying "its a tool it helps", on why a paerser system is good or needed feel free to explain.
The above is my sole opinion based on playing this game and dcuo and seeing parser work in that game and how players behaved vs how players behave in this one.