parse for ps4 users !

[Yshnal]

I still don't understand that "argument" of yours. What do you mean by people not knowing how to use and read a parser?

They just see dps numbers and don't take into account AoE damage, mobility, mechanics, etc. Sometimes you might not be doing proper dps because you had to do something else, as another player didn't do what they had to do. In that situation these players would blame you for the lack of dps instead of being aware that it wasn't actually your fault at all. That's what I mean with few people knowing how to use that tool, and you will agree that if a parser is so much needed because there's so many people that don't know how to use their job, they won't be able to use a parser properly either outside of using it to check their own raw dps. And in that case they will have enough (and it will be easier for them) with what SE is going to implement to "train" players.

A parser won't magically make people learn how to use their job. It can even be counterproductive if they don't understand the information that they're getting from it. That's why I'm more inclined to do something like what SE is trying to do, instead of just giving a parser to everyone and hope for the best.

[sirDarts]

They just see dps numbers and don't take into account AoE damage, mobility, mechanics, etc. Sometimes you might not be doing proper dps because you had to do something else, as another player didn't do what they had to do. In that situation these players would blame you for the lack of dps instead of being aware that it wasn't actually your fault at all. That's what I mean with few people knowing how to use that tool, and you will agree that if a parser is so much needed because there's so many people that don't know how to use their job, they won't be able to use a parser properly either outside of using it to check their own raw dps. And in that case they will have enough (and it will be easier for them) with what SE is going to implement to "train" players.

A parser won't magically make people learn how to use their job. It can even be counterproductive if they don't understand the information that they're getting from it. That's why I'm more inclined to do something like what SE is trying to do, instead of just giving a parser to everyone and hope for the best.

Well, yes, it's a tool, and a tool is only as useful as the user makes it.

On the other hand, most people DO NOT CARE about people underperforming as long as content is getting cleared. And I have met "Ice-Mages", Tanks that lose half mob agro every pull, healers who just cast Cure/Physick/Whatever the AST equivalent is as soon as the Tank falls under 80% and not doing anything else, etc. NOBODY cared, NOBODY complained, NOBODY said a word, NOBODY kicked anyone. UNLESS this underperforming caused a wipe. And then you DO need to know who is the reason for the fail, and you just can't tell who it is, if it is DPS.

[Sapphic]

I'll quote myself, as it seems that some people think about parsers in a void, thus only seeing their benefits:


You just need to see the behavior of these players here and in every other MMO that has allowed or implemented open parsers (or here, even with the "don't talk about it" policy). It's not just a small number of people noticing this, otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion in every MMO out there.

Yet it is just the same, small number of players who are vehemently against parsers. Maybe those getting called out when parsers are used should look at themselves instead of the tool.

Use you anecdotal evidence to answer this if you can, Why is it ok for a DPS to underperform and not be held acountable whereas a tank underperforming or a healer underperforming is? By refusing to answer it makes your points moot.

It is easy to spot a Tank or healer that is underperforming to the standard required to clear content. How do you know then if required DPS is 1000 per DPS and one is pulling 1000 DPS and the second is pulling 900? All situations lead to not completing the content. Or one DPS is pushing 1000 and the other is pushing 300 but believes vehemently that they are doing good?

[MentheusDreyar]

Yet it is just the same, small number of players who are vehemently against parsers. Maybe those getting called out when parsers are used should look at themselves instead of the tool.

Use you anecdotal evidence to answer this if you can, Why is it ok for a DPS to underperform and not be held acountable whereas a tank underperforming or a healer underperforming is? By refusing to answer it makes your points moot.

Time for the daily "Because harassment" comeback they can't answer it because there have no legitimate answer to it.

[Sapphic]

Time for the daily "Because harassment" comeback they can't answer it because there have no legitimate answer to it.

But they don't see it as harrasment when a DPS is vastly underperforming which leads to content not being cleared.

Yet they will probably be the first to complain if they keep dieing due to no heals, or wiping because the tank cannot be bothered to hold enmity on mobs.

[WinterLuna]

Time for the daily "Because harassment" comeback they can't answer it because there have no legitimate answer to it.

A lot of people like me are not against a parser in any way but get annoyed when people act like nobody has ever been harassed over it. Of course a parser has many benefits and of course harassment is harassment for whatever reason, but it's annoying to see some players (not referring to anyone in particular) play blind to the fact it's happened before just because they feel so strongly about having a parser implemented.

In response to the thread? Sure, add a parser, it doesn't really bother me in the slightest. (Some) of the community just needs to learn to stop being so aggressive over DPS numbers. There's a difference between saying 'hey, your DPS is a little low, you could improve by...' and swearing and trying to make someone feel useless.

[Yshnal]

Yet it is just the same, small number of players who are vehemently against parsers. Maybe those getting called out when parsers are used should look at themselves instead of the tool.

Use you anecdotal evidence to answer this if you can, Why is it ok for a DPS to underperform and not be held acountable whereas a tank underperforming or a healer underperforming is? By refusing to answer it makes your points moot.

Read my last post, please.

[Sapphic]

Read my last post, please.

Can't see where you answer my question, just personal anecdotal "evidence".

So, enlighten me, where DO you answer that DPS don't need to be as accountable as tanks and healers in regards to performance in a team setting?

[Malevicton]

I'll quote myself, as it seems that some people think about parsers in a void, thus only seeing their benefits:


You just need to see the behavior of these players here and in every other MMO that has allowed or implemented open parsers (or here, even with the "don't talk about it" policy). It's not just a small number of people noticing this, otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion in every MMO out there.

Thing is, we don't have that conversation in other MMO's. I just googled "WoW recount harassment" for kicks and there was 1 result in the first page, called "Recount needs to die" that was about players being rude with recount. Nearly every post in that thread disagreed with the op. There were no other results on the front page, every other result was people asking for help with setup. Meanwhile, if you google for "FFxiv parser harassment" you get an absurd amount of threads saying pretty much what you're saying; that it's inevitable. This community has a particular fear of parsers that's exclusive. But other mmos, like WoW, that already have parsers? Look at their threads and you find nothing to support that. So I agree that we can look at our experiences in other MMOs to inform our decisions here, but apparently you and I have had very different experiences, and if google is worth anything, then your experience seems significantly less common.

There's also this (now pretty common) video from WoW where someone experimented with this type of stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas (for the people who don't wanna get dragged into an 11 minute video, someone made a new character and afk or autoattacked through all but the hardcore raid content and only got kicked once). That's been much more indicative of my experience, in both ffxiv and other mmos. Don't you guys remember all the people that would afk in LotA as soon as loot dropped? Sometimes they'd get votekicked, a lot of times people would just roll their eyes and move on. I'm sure anyone can cherrypick an example of parser harassment, but that doesn't mean there's any trend. If we look to other MMOs to help establish that trend, they do the opposite, they seem to support that there's no increase in harassment whatsoever.

[Yshnal]

Thing is, we don't have that conversation in other MMO's. I just googled "WoW recount harassment" for kicks and there was 1 result in the first page, called "Recount needs to die" that was about players being rude with recount. Nearly every post in that thread disagreed with the op. There were no other results on the front page, every other result was people asking for help with setup. Meanwhile, if you google for "FFxiv parser harassment" you get an absurd amount of threads saying pretty much what you're saying; that it's inevitable. This community has a particular fear of parsers that's exclusive. But other mmos, like WoW, that already have parsers? Look at their threads and you find nothing to support that. So I agree that we can look at our experiences in other MMOs to inform our decisions here, but apparently you and I have had very different experiences, and if google is worth anything, then your experience seems significantly less common.

Nice try but, as I remember having this discussion more than once before, I just did a search with "dps meters are bad" (those are the key words that end up appearing sooner or later) and I got plenty of results about related topics from: WoW, Rift, SWTOR, Tera, ESO... Not counting the ones on Reddit, Gamefaqs, et al., and FFXIV too, of course. And that just on the first page. So yes, this has been discussed to death in every MMO out there, with the same arguments from both parties. It's a fact that there's a rift in the MMO playerbase in that regard.

SE is trying to get a compromise with what they intend (or seem to) do. We should give ideas and support it for now, until we see how it works. Meanwhile, we all should just agree to disagree, be it those that want them, those that don't, and those that are in the middle.