parse for ps4 users !

[Archaell]

But they don't see it as harrasment when a DPS is vastly underperforming which leads to content not being cleared.

Because their dps is good, they want to believe their dps is good, yet they fear the truth.

When you have several DDs in the group it is easy to think "the game says I am the best being in whole Eorzea" so clearly the other DDs must do their job poorly...

Of course the first approach to wipes is to ignore everything and go with basics: "We are dead. Who is responsible for keeping us alive? The healer! It is healer's fault!" *Vote kick commenced*

[WinterLuna]

Time for the daily "Because harassment" comeback they can't answer it because there have no legitimate answer to it.

A lot of people like me are not against a parser in any way but get annoyed when people act like nobody has ever been harassed over it. Of course a parser has many benefits and of course harassment is harassment for whatever reason, but it's annoying to see some players (not referring to anyone in particular) play blind to the fact it's happened before just because they feel so strongly about having a parser implemented.

In response to the thread? Sure, add a parser, it doesn't really bother me in the slightest. (Some) of the community just needs to learn to stop being so aggressive over DPS numbers. There's a difference between saying 'hey, your DPS is a little low, you could improve by...' and swearing and trying to make someone feel useless.

[MentheusDreyar]

A lot of people like me are not against a parser in any way but get annoyed when people act like nobody has ever been harassed over it. Of course a parser has many benefits and of course harassment is harassment for whatever reason, but it's annoying to see some players (not referring to anyone in particular) play blind to the fact it's happened before just because they feel so strongly about having a parser implemented.

In response to the thread? Sure, add a parser, it doesn't really bother me in the slightest. (Some) of the community just needs to learn to stop being so aggressive over DPS numbers. There's a difference between saying 'hey, your DPS is a little low, you could improve by...' and swearing and trying to make someone feel useless.

I don't think anyone in any of the parser threads on either side are saying it never happens, it's just no where near as bad as they are making out. Either way a-hole will be a-holes with or without a parser, but the anti-parser crowd are using these minority to prevent the implementation of an incredibly useful that could help many of the players potentially improve without having to rely on other people or 3rd party software.

The fact is we can't even give real advice due to the fact we'd have to reveal we are using a parser and therefore risk getting banned trying to help. Which just leads to us kicking those that are messing up and coming off as "elitist" and "jerks".

Harassment is going to happen with or without parsers. Do you know what a no parser environment reinforces though? Pointing fingers without having a clue whose's fault it is. No parsers = no/less harassment? Nope. It's more often than not just as toxic if not more. In fact, with a parser people could actually defend themselves.

The no parsers environment reinforces ignorance, lazyness and makes the whole FFXIV scenario even more casual and ultimately reduces the amount of decent content because the dev's can't afford to make anything even remotely hard or "mid-core" apart from pushing it to the extremes with savage difficulty for a select few. Which is likely the reason we haven't got this content, there's no general skill level to balance it too because people either seem to suck or are good, there is hardly anyone between those two points when you compare them. Which causes everything to get nerfed to the ground.

Oh! look at that, i also found a possible solution to another community issue, lack of mid-core content!

[Yshnal]

Yet it is just the same, small number of players who are vehemently against parsers. Maybe those getting called out when parsers are used should look at themselves instead of the tool.

Use you anecdotal evidence to answer this if you can, Why is it ok for a DPS to underperform and not be held acountable whereas a tank underperforming or a healer underperforming is? By refusing to answer it makes your points moot.

Read my last post, please.

[Sapphic]

Read my last post, please.

Can't see where you answer my question, just personal anecdotal "evidence".

So, enlighten me, where DO you answer that DPS don't need to be as accountable as tanks and healers in regards to performance in a team setting?

[Yshnal]

Can't see where you answer my question, just personal anecdotal "evidence".

So, enlighten me, where DO you answer that DPS don't need to be as accountable as tanks and healers in regards to performance in a team setting?

(Good) parsers don't just parse dps. They also parse healing, mitigation, etc., so that you check and read it all to be able to know where's the culprit, and why something happened. Nowhere did I talk about a dps meter (nor does the thread title talk about that), so I don't really understand your fixation with me about this. A simple dps meter would be moot for the reasons that I state, as what you really want to know is WHY someone doesn't reach certain thresholds, be it for mitigation, healing, and also dps, of course (and that's why you need to be able to read what the tool is telling you, instead of just looking at the numbers). That people fail to grasp this and just keep talking about parsers as simple dps meters, and as if dps always drops as a direct consequence of a dps not playing right, is not anecdotal evidence, and it simply proves my point: most players wouldn't even know how to use a parser, thus it would serve no good at all on their hands.

Do you want that people learn to play their jobs (regardless of if they are dps or not)? Give suggestions for the upcoming training grounds. That should help players learn the basics about how to deal with mechanics and how to use their healing, mitigation, and dps rotations. If you just introduce a parser (or worse, a simple dps meter) you will only help the same people that already know their stuff, as they would be the only ones that would be able to use it correctly outside of FC/LS/static groups, while at the same time giving other players a tool that, without further guidance, they will probably use wrong. Now tell me where the majority of the playerbase lies, according to your requests and the urge for a parser.

I mainly tank (well, 99% of the time, as I haven't touched my dps jobs in a while), and believe me when I tell you that I know why you say that. But I can also see that simply doing what you ask wouldn't fix almost anything, while also bringing other problems to the table. There's better solutions than asking for a dps meter.

[Sapphic]

(Good) parsers don't just parse dps. They also parse healing, mitigation, etc.,

I know all that, I've been using parsers since EQ days.It would put all data for all roles in an accessible format so all can be analyzed on how they are performing and always the first thing you check is the DPS if things arent dieing fast enough. If the tank dies then you check the HPS and skill usage to mitigate after checking what killed the tank. eg, not using a mitigation ability for a tank buster. Or if the healer is struggling with mana, first thing you check again is the DPS, if thats fine, you check what abilites the healer is using, how much overheal etc.

The easiest data to check first is DPS. If that is at required or above the minimum needed then you check the other data unless it was obvious, like the tank dieing to a tank buster. With healers, you do not check their HPS first, you check their overheal. Then their HPS and skill usage. eg, someone spamming cure 3 is going to get high HPS, run out of mana and have massive overheal.

In other words, a parser would give data for all roles, thus making them all accountable for their performance. Which you still have refused to answer.

[Malevicton]

I'll quote myself, as it seems that some people think about parsers in a void, thus only seeing their benefits:


You just need to see the behavior of these players here and in every other MMO that has allowed or implemented open parsers (or here, even with the "don't talk about it" policy). It's not just a small number of people noticing this, otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion in every MMO out there.

Thing is, we don't have that conversation in other MMO's. I just googled "WoW recount harassment" for kicks and there was 1 result in the first page, called "Recount needs to die" that was about players being rude with recount. Nearly every post in that thread disagreed with the op. There were no other results on the front page, every other result was people asking for help with setup. Meanwhile, if you google for "FFxiv parser harassment" you get an absurd amount of threads saying pretty much what you're saying; that it's inevitable. This community has a particular fear of parsers that's exclusive. But other mmos, like WoW, that already have parsers? Look at their threads and you find nothing to support that. So I agree that we can look at our experiences in other MMOs to inform our decisions here, but apparently you and I have had very different experiences, and if google is worth anything, then your experience seems significantly less common.

There's also this (now pretty common) video from WoW where someone experimented with this type of stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas (for the people who don't wanna get dragged into an 11 minute video, someone made a new character and afk or autoattacked through all but the hardcore raid content and only got kicked once). That's been much more indicative of my experience, in both ffxiv and other mmos. Don't you guys remember all the people that would afk in LotA as soon as loot dropped? Sometimes they'd get votekicked, a lot of times people would just roll their eyes and move on. I'm sure anyone can cherrypick an example of parser harassment, but that doesn't mean there's any trend. If we look to other MMOs to help establish that trend, they do the opposite, they seem to support that there's no increase in harassment whatsoever.

[Yshnal]

Thing is, we don't have that conversation in other MMO's. I just googled "WoW recount harassment" for kicks and there was 1 result in the first page, called "Recount needs to die" that was about players being rude with recount. Nearly every post in that thread disagreed with the op. There were no other results on the front page, every other result was people asking for help with setup. Meanwhile, if you google for "FFxiv parser harassment" you get an absurd amount of threads saying pretty much what you're saying; that it's inevitable. This community has a particular fear of parsers that's exclusive. But other mmos, like WoW, that already have parsers? Look at their threads and you find nothing to support that. So I agree that we can look at our experiences in other MMOs to inform our decisions here, but apparently you and I have had very different experiences, and if google is worth anything, then your experience seems significantly less common.

Nice try but, as I remember having this discussion more than once before, I just did a search with "dps meters are bad" (those are the key words that end up appearing sooner or later) and I got plenty of results about related topics from: WoW, Rift, SWTOR, Tera, ESO... Not counting the ones on Reddit, Gamefaqs, et al., and FFXIV too, of course. And that just on the first page. So yes, this has been discussed to death in every MMO out there, with the same arguments from both parties. It's a fact that there's a rift in the MMO playerbase in that regard.

SE is trying to get a compromise with what they intend (or seem to) do. We should give ideas and support it for now, until we see how it works. Meanwhile, we all should just agree to disagree, be it those that want them, those that don't, and those that are in the middle.

[Malevicton]

Nice try but, as I remember having this discussion more than once before, I just did a search with "dps meters are bad" (those are the key words that end up appearing sooner or later) and I got plenty of results about related topics from: WoW, Rift, SWTOR, Tera, ESO... Not counting the ones on Reddit, Gamefaqs, et al., and FFXIV too, of course. And that just on the first page. So yes, this has been discussed to death in every MMO out there, with the same arguments from both parties. It's a fact that there's a rift in the MMO playerbase in that regard.

SE is trying to get a compromise with what they intend (or seem to) do. We should give ideas and support it for now, until we see how it works. Meanwhile, we all should just agree to disagree, be it those that want them, those that don't, and those that are in the middle.

First of all, are they bad is a completely different question from do they cause harassment, but alright, let's take a look at those topics shall we?

http://www.engadget.com/2014/12/12/t...-bad-for-mmos/ Is a series of rhetorical questions from a crafter's blog based on a comment they saw on a different thread. There are no comments on this thread to answer their self-serving rhetorical questions.

http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...eters-bad.html Everyone in this thread disagrees with the op.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/11547145531 This person says they've always been against parsers and have been playing WoW since beta. The post is made in 2014. That's a lot of play time. They say they've had 3 incidents with dps meters. 3. By 2014, since the beta. And that's from a person who's obviously trying their best to make meters sound bad, and all they can come up with is 3 incidents. (also pretty much everyone disagrees with this op as well)

3 more of the links are for ffxiv, which just further my point that this community is way more obsessed with meters than other communities. We don't even have a parser but we have more threads about parser harassment on the front page than other mmos.

Then there are 2 topics near the bottom of the page of people asking for meters.

Some of the sub-topics from the WoW recount topics are people asking how they can get better dps.

I remain unconvinced. I'm sure you've had the discussion more than once, and sure the topic exists, but it's not nearly as widespread as you seem to think. ffxiv has a weird fixation on it, way more than other mmos.