parse for ps4 users !

[Archaell]

...

Exclusion is it then. That's great it feels a lil bit like progress.

Have you ever thought that exclusion can be used to protect people?

Let me give you few examples that might infuriate some of the anti-parsers. Would you say that it is bad when there are female only FCs? Which are made to protect their members from harassment? Or mature FCs that are there to avoid irresponsibility of younger players?

Well the same applies to FCs who would want to invite only players of specific skill. If you can't do your part in fights it might create toxic environment and so this requirement prevents that.

Now for the DF. Can parser be used to protect players in DF? Absolutely. It can protect hard trying players from the Netflixers of Slackerdom.

Just today I could have used parser on several occasions, and I mean the other person having parser - not me. I got several way too undergeared players in my groups that if they were not there nothing much would change. I am not that type of person to kick them from group, but if they saw how pitiful their contribution was, maybe they would consider at least visiting local market board to gear up.

Here is the main thing the people who fear parsers are totally ignoring - when you join a group you are supposed to meaningfully contribute. If you can't do that then you do not deserve to be there. It's that simple. Yet right now there is no way to protect players that try they best from these exploiters who do not care. Parser isn't going to fix this on its own of course and here is where your exclusion comes from. If you are not willing to pull your weight then you get called out first and if you continue doing this kind of harmful behaviour you are going to be kicked. To protect the rest of the group. Simple.

You fear that new players might be excluded... well yes they might be. They might be excluded from content that they are not prepared to clear (be it gear, or be it skill). If you are not good enough to do something, then you should never ever expect others to carry you through it. You are basicaly imposing your work loadout on strangers without giving anything in return. Would you expect strangers to do your job for you and for free? No. Because it is immoral. Yet not many players in-game care when it comes to carrying...

So yeah. If it were not for all the bad/slacking players, maybe parser would not be as much supported.

[MentheusDreyar]

@ drayer
Parser is a third party tool, third party tools are against the ToS. Parser use is currently Under a Don't ASK, Don't TELL.

Anyone one person here can be reported on for third party tool use if they claim to use a parser. Which yes its a bannable offence.
The fact you say that alone Its not, is funny when infact it is.

Did i say they aren't against ToS? NO. The only reason that rule is in place is because SE is a software company and they have to have the grounds to protect their products in the event they deem it necessary. But the actual rule itself is not really enforced in any way other than when abuse of the tool comes into play. Which is my whole point. As long as you aren't using it to abuse other players SE don't really care as long as you aren't borderline advertising them. Otherwise i'd have been banned a long time ago...

And i read all your posts in full, you come off like parser did everthing in this game from, factoring the best players, best combos, stat waights. This being on ps3 and ps4 prevents that, if this was pc only then that would hold water.

And you come off like a brick wall of ignorance? So what's your point? Oh look more assumptions

The FACT is parsers were used to calculate the best and optimal rotations and stat weights, the fact you think they weren't is incredibly naive and show's your lack of knowledge in this area so stop trying to argue otherwise.
No one is saying parsers are responsible for ALL of the best players, but most definitely the high end world first type of best players and most certainly the majority because in one way or another they are using data gathered from a parser.

If you give people the tools and the numbers They will use it to judge players and exclude players in PF (non-issue) and DF (the issue). This game is already starting to have a less new player friendly community

Again, baseless assumptions. And the game is just as unfriendly towards new player's as any other game online. That's nothing new.

And not having a parser isn't punishing anyone. And please stop using terms minority and majority as these terms have no facts either way in any case or point of view.

It's punishing those on console that want to benefit from the tool but have no way of running 3rd party programs. You want to remove options for other players because of a minority of bad apples? You don't see how incredibly stupid that is? Quit being so selfish because of your baseless assumptions of other people and fearmongering of parsers.

The majority/minority argument holds more weight than your baseless assumptions that have generally been proven wrong throughout every parser topic.

The only thing i see from the parser argument is you guys don't like the anti-parser views

Because over and over again your views have been proven to be baseless, misinformed, ignorant and just plain stupid and wrong.

and believe the only reason we don't want one is so people see our "shoddy dps numbers".

Well the more outlandish and stupid replies we get to defend against having a parser, more and more this seems like an accurate statement.

And because no one anti-parser has answered any of the important question's we've asked them and have purposefully ignored them over and over, i'd say for the majority it's probably true.

You also believe one can't improve with out a parser, which again isn't factually true

Not saying you can't, the whole point is that a parser gives you the information you need in a more attractive and easier to understand layout than what the game provides. Why would you not use it? It's clearly a convenient and superior tool for helping you assess yourself and others performance and look for ways to improve.

I have yet to see anything resembaling a fact, just conjecture.

So basically you haven't read any of the pro parser points in any thread within the forum then?

Honestly I'm done, because you clearly don't bother taking in anything other people are saying... I'm not wasting any more time banging my head on a brick wall getting you to listen.

Snip.

+1

[raelgun]

You also believe one can't improve with out a parser, which again isn't factually true.

I have yet to see anything resembaling a fact, just conjecture.

Name one thing in this world and I really mean it, name one thing that people do that is performance related that improves upon something that have no comparable metric to go by, a DPS parser is a metric to go by, every improvement is measured against something and you need to know exactly what that measure is.

Every performance related activity has a metric to compare against, this is how every one improves, quick example Olympic athletes.

[Gilraen]

Name one thing in this world and I really mean it, name one thing that people do that is performance related that improves upon something that have no comparable metric to go by

Building something. The elements are comparable; the blueprint is the dungeon, the build quality is in completing the dungeon or beating the boss, inspection is in the victory. If the everyone does their job that's the end of it and the inspector gives a parting wave, that is to say loot is awarded and everyone jumps in the portal. This is the case of near every dungeon I've run, there were no obvious slackards and the dungeon finished without consequence. I've had fast runs and slow runs and really slow runs but a bad run is a rare occurrence.

[Odett]

Building something. The elements are comparable; the blueprint is the dungeon, the build quality is in completing the dungeon or beating the boss, inspection is in the victory. If the everyone does their job that's the end of it and the inspector gives a parting wave, that is to say loot is awarded and everyone jumps in the portal. This is the case of near every dungeon I've run, there were no obvious slackards and the dungeon finished without consequence. I've had fast runs and slow runs and really slow runs but a bad run is a rare occurrence.

So when a DPS check isn't being met, how do you know who's getting in the way of a clear? After four+ wipes at exactly the same DPS check phase of the fight, how can you pinpoint the problem? Wouldn't you like to know why a DPS check isn't being met and deal with the problem, rather than disbanding the entire group?

[kingatlas]

Ok
So I think this whole thing went off topic.

Think the OP was asking for ps4 parser.

Not Are you guys for or against parsers.

No you will never get a parser for ps4 for this game, SE doesn't have one for PC so they aren't going to give one to ps4.
Simple. Done.


PS. As for pro or con for parsers. TBH no one gives a crap about your opinion here, for or against.
Why, because you cant change anyone's mind about anything here.
This isn't a debate forum for intelligent conversation.
Its just a place for people to scream their opinion at each other.

[Gilraen]

Ok
So I think this whole thing went off topic.

It was off-topic before it even started. Chif's opening post was a rather ignorant statement that PS4 players should get a parser cause 'all' PC players have one, which isn't true in the slightest. I played on PC for all of my time in 1.0 and much of the Beta and not once looked up much less used a parser. I kind of like my PC as virus free as I can keep it, one of the biggest issues of third party software use and one alot of players, PC or not, are wary of (it's because of this vulnerability of PCs that Square implemented a security token in XI and maintained it's presence since). But that doesn't seem to matter to Chif, his assertion is that 'all' good players use parsers and the PS4 'needs' one.

So when a DPS check isn't being met, how do you know who's getting in the way of a clear?

I haven't been in many groups where a 'DPS check' not being met was the result of someone slacking. I was in some of the early Alexander runs and there were a few where we wiped to Self Destruct, but it wasn't because of slacking. At least, not outright slacking. Sometimes one DD would be left with two spiders while the other DD on that particular boss just kept wailing on the boss, causing that one DD observing mechanics to get Mini'd. Or the one holding the spiders would receive the blessing of RNGesus and get bombed while trying to kill the spiders. Generally, shit happens and you have to look at the fight from more than just the angle of the 'DPS check'. I, personally, never give up on a fight until everyone gives up and by that time, well, everyone's given up so there's no point pointing fingers at anyone.

[Odett]

Generally, shit happens and you have to look at the fight from more than just the angle of the 'DPS check'. I, personally, never give up on a fight until everyone gives up and by that time, well, everyone's given up so there's no point pointing fingers at anyone.

Did you do Ramuh EX when it came out? How many times have you attempted Bismarck EX, even now with a MUCH higher average iLv between players? Did you do SCoB when it was relevant, or Final Coil? Have you walked into Alex Savage? I'm not trying to attack you, but instead provide examples of fights that had the potential to be very difficult at the time of release due to DPS checks not being met.

How many groups did you encounter that couldn't clear Ramuh's ads before his 1hko attack?

How many times has a BisEX group wiped during the 2 flying serpents, or has had to deal with an surplus of ads in the last phase because the group couldn't kill them in time in order to keep up with the new waves?

When SCoB was new, how many times did Raflessia have to be moved because the bulb in the middle wasn't killed in time? How many times did your group wipe because the superslime wasn't killed fast enough?

How many times did you get a third Heavensfall in T9, or didn't have the DPS to reach a clean transition into the last phase without a Ghost up? How many times was the tank shit out of luck because the first phase was dragged on for too long and they ran out of cooldowns to mitigate Ravensbeak and Raven's Blight?

How many times did you wipe on Imdugud when it came out because there wasn't enough DPS on the ads and he got too many charges?

How many times did you wipe on T12 because the Benus weren't killed in time during the ad phase before the last phase?

How many times did you wipe on T13 because the ad phase wasn't being handled fast enough?

How many times have you wiped in any turn of Alex Savage because every single one requires a high standard of DPS and it wasn't met?

I have provided examples of harder content, but you can even look at easier stuff when it came out, and the sheer number of people that had trouble with the first boss of Pharos Sirius, or the last boss of Haukke Manor HM when it was released, or the second boss of Sastasha HM where he would get too many determination stacks from his gun shooting mechanic, or the second boss of Qarn HM, where enough damage wasn't caused to interrupt its needle attack. You can even look at fights like the last boss of the Vault, where 2 underperforming players will drag on the fight for ages and make the healer's job extremely taxing.

You're describing content like Alex Normal where the group has to be REALLY, REALLY, EXTREMELY bad nowadays in order to wipe from an enrage. I had a group last week on Alex 1 NM where we cleared it with 3 DPS because the fourth one d/ced at the start of the fight and never came back (that's 1 DPS on the Oppressor, 1 on .5, and a ranged switching between the two based on HP percentages). I't not about not looking at fights from the angle of a DPS check, because many fights ARE DPS checks, plain and simple. You can't dismiss fights like the ones I provided above, and it's not my duty either to keep tabs on the performance of DPS players by checking for DoT's, debuffs, buffs, and cast times.

It has been said many times now agan and again, but tanks and healers are expected to perform at a certain level in this game, but oftentimes, DPS players don't share this responsibility according to the general community, especially in a metagame where tanks are often expected to rock Strength accessories. It's a double standard that healers and tanks must perform above a certain threshold, a threshold which has been set much lower for DPS players by the community, to the point where many players see decent DPS output (I repeat, decent, not min-maxing) as a luxury instead of a basic expectation. It is absolutely no secret why the most difficult fights in this game are centered around the DPS player having the most responsibility.

[sirDarts]

I haven't been in many groups where a 'DPS check' not being met was the result of someone slacking. I was in some of the early Alexander runs and there were a few where we wiped to Self Destruct, but it wasn't because of slacking. At least, not outright slacking. Sometimes one DD would be left with two spiders while the other DD on that particular boss just kept wailing on the boss, causing that one DD observing mechanics to get Mini'd. Or the one holding the spiders would receive the blessing of RNGesus and get bombed while trying to kill the spiders. Generally, shit happens and you have to look at the fight from more than just the angle of the 'DPS check'. I, personally, never give up on a fight until everyone gives up and by that time, well, everyone's given up so there's no point pointing fingers at anyone.

Of course there can be various reasons why a DPS check failed, it doesn't have to be someone slacking.
But even then, a parser points you into the right direction.

When My FC did Bismarck EX for the first time, we noticed that one of the BLM was doing rather low DPS thanks to a parser (he didn't notice). It was because of mechanics, not because he didn't want to perform, so we gave him pointers, where he can mostly stand in one place, and it went way better (we didn't clear in the end because we failed 3rd phase, but at least we got to the 3rd phase...).
You can't notice stuff like that without a parser.

Or lets say you fail Faust in Alex Savage, that's a DPS check that has ZERO mechanics, you just stand there and beat on him. Without a parser it's REALLY hard to see who needs help (be it more optimal rotation, better gear, or buffs).

Or lets say you are playing AST - Balance is % based, so it's worth more to put it on the player who does the most DPS. How are you supposed to know that without a parser? Keep in mind that the difference can easily be more than 100 DPS, which can be "make or break" in many DPS checks.

[Chif]

Ppl clear new content because they are useing parse with out parse no 1 can clear any new content on time .I know ppl afraid from parse because they can't doing good dps and ppl will kick them as some ppl said ... Raiding ppl have parse already, screenshot ppl don't want it , I need answers from SE. if they not addit ,changing for pc ,easy for me .if they addit ineedit ppl who want to improve skills need it .as I said before this parse not lligle but 90% from pc user use it . I want ps4 user have all options same as pc to clear content if the parse not important why raiding ppl use it ????