parse for ps4 users !

[ShanaShirayuki]

There is difference between harassment and segregation. If I make a pf and state people who can't parse over 1500 will be kicked, that is creating segregation. Telling someone they suck because they can't parse high is harassment. This game is already completely anti community, we don't need to add anymore fire to it, we already have people refusing to help players learn content. And no I'm sorry watching a number doesn't help you, actually sitting down and trying different skills and using buffs at certain times help. Parse doesn't do that, it doesn't tell you "Hey because your number is 500 you should use this skill first, then this buff, followed up by this skill then that one to increase your number to 700." The player finds that out by actually practicing, it's like playing a fighting game and thinking basic free training will help you learn advanced combos for example, Street Fighter.

Where do you think optimal rotations and skill usage came from? Numbers. And the numbers came from parsing with hours of spreadsheet work along with trying different abilities and when to use them. The game itself doesn't do a good job teaching players how or when to use their skills, hence the aforementioned is needed. Also, a fighting game is very different from an MMO, there are multiple things: the number of frames a character has when they jump or use an attack, as well as taking into account the matchup, is it a grappler vs a rushdown character? Not to mention specific monitors are needed to reduce input lag. And the big thing, more often than not you're up against a human opponent, where mind games also play a big role. Should I use cross-ups, will they use this ability on wake-up, etc.

Nice try comparing the two, like apples and oranges.

[Jetstream_Fox]

Where do you think optimal rotations and skill usage came from? Numbers. And the numbers came from parsing with hours of spreadsheet work along with trying different abilities and when to use them. The game itself doesn't do a good job teaching players how or when to use their skills. Also, a fighting game is very different from an MMO, there are multiple things: the number of frames a character has when they jump or use an attack, should I use cross-ups, will they use this ability on wake-up, etc.

Well that's very easy to break down

1. You learn the skills and rotation by playing the game, the parse also doesn't tell you "HEY PLAYER USE THIS BUFF AFTER THAT SKILL TO GET A HIGHER DAMAGE INPUT" we learn that through experimentation WHICH we already have the means to do with standard striking dummies.

2. While the games are different they have high similarities. You mention grappler vs rush down? How they play is different along with their skills, yet we have to actually practice to know the limits of the styles, same with Ninja and Summoner. Different play styles, different game type same logic applies to learning.

3. Frames are you kidding? EVERY game has frames each character has, you can get killed popping hollowed ground because not all frames registered when that boss hit you, you can get interrupted in a fighter if a punch doesn't register it's hit before a kick.

Honestly if think the concepts behind training in a game are different from one genre to another I can't help you there. Spending a few hours training on a fighter and 4 hours learning a class on a MMO are the exact same thing, you're learning how to play. Honestly it's like you players who want parse have no sense on what makes improvement.

The player still has to MANUALLY input the skill in order for the parse to say if it is higher or not, the parse WILL NOT TELL YOU WHAT TO DO IF YOU DON'T ALREADY KNOW. And I hate to break it to ya, but if a player is doing something wrong with their rotation at level 60 chances are they don't care, they disregarded the toolkit or they are doing it intentionally. A parse won't help with that at all, because again IT DOESN'T PLAY THE GAME FOR YOU.

[sirDarts]

Well that's very easy to break down

1. You learn the skills and rotation by playing the game, the parse also doesn't tell you "HEY PLAYER USE THIS BUFF AFTER THAT SKILL TO GET A HIGHER DAMAGE INPUT" we learn that through experimentation WHICH we already have the means to do with standard striking dummies.

Honestly if think the concepts behind training in a game are different from one genre to another I can't help you there. Spending a few hours training on a fighter and 4 hours learning a class on a MMO are the exact same thing, you're learning how to play. Honestly it's like you players who want parse have no sense on what makes improvement.

The player still has to MANUALLY input the skill in order for the parse to say if it is higher or not, the parse WILL NOT TELL YOU WHAT TO DO IF YOU DON'T ALREADY KNOW. And I hate to break it to ya, but if a player is doing something wrong with their rotation at level 60 chances are they don't care, they disregarded the toolkit or they are doing it intentionally. A parse won't help with that at all, because again IT DOESN'T PLAY THE GAME FOR YOU.

1) A striking dummy is NOT enough, it doesn't tell you how much damage you are doing with the rotation. Thinking that the combos set out by the game and that a strinking dummy is enough is the reason for 1-2-3 DPS who don't use DoTs and buffs/debuffs.

YOU CAN'T train if you don't know that you are doing it wrong! That's what the parser WILL tell you - it will tell you: "Hey you are doing half the damage of the other DPS, despite being close in gear, you are doing something WRONG!" Most people think they are the best there ever was, so they will NOT train! Not to mention that training without a parsers is like training for a run without a stopwatch. You might feel that what you did different made stuff better, but it might have made it worse!

Yes, of course you need to practice your rotations to pull them off, a parser does NOT make you a great player, it just helps you get there yourself! It will tell you that you need to search for better rotations because your is crap. IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO PLAY THE GAME FOR YOU!

[ShanaShirayuki]

Honestly if think the concepts behind training in a game are different from one genre to another I can't help you there. Spending a few hours training on a fighter and 4 hours learning a class on a MMO are the exact same thing, you're learning how to play. Honestly it's like you players who want parse have no sense on what makes improvement.

Ironic saying that players who parse have no sense on improvement when optimization came FROM parsing on which abilities in certain orders and at certain times increased overall DPS. Not to mention all these guides/threads that you Anti Parsing crowd keep pointing to for one to learn a class came from parsing, so I have no idea why you keep going back to that.

[Misutoraru]

It won't lead to more harassment, this point has already been proven.

I use to play a JRPG which wasn't introduce to western
Some how the meter were introduced
Time pass the community become purely relied on the meter
When ever someone want to discuss game relate topic that person have to post their number before they could speaks
Eventually it become post war of numbers
There are post war before the meter was introduced but it simply become a war zone after the meter
Of coz it is a very extreme example
All I want to say is, cultural differences, game mechanics, game environment, design...there are too many factors can vary a study
Ideal case of coz will be how do I improve? How you could get higher number, but we all know Peter pan live in a world that don't exist
ppl who misuse it is just like giving a sociopath a kitchen knife, adding fuel to a fire

[Archaell]

Here is the problem - parser rarely causes harassment when the player is top dps. The probability of getting harassad increases the same way player's performance decreases - healers and tanks have to live with this since start of the game. The more we delay parser the higher harassment wave it will cause.

Look at Bismark HM, people are starting to get really edgy when dps check fails. It gets cleared, but not without wipes and there are many failed runs. But everybody can clear it if they wait long enough for groups of better geared/skilled players.

Now imagine what would happen if the game's dps checks continued to increase? More fail groups. The gear is overboosted, maybe due to skill of player base, what is going to happen if developers stop putting so many stats between item levels? More wipes, increased frustration, increased need for parser. Right now game is so easy that in good enough group even toddler could reach Alex Savage.

[XiXiQ]

all that needs to be done is the parser is there for only the player to see. It's totally private, and they can choose to turn it on or not.

None of the current rules in regards to DPS meters need to change. It's still harrassment if you read someone else's numbers, or demand a certain DPS out of party members, or expect people to reveal their numbers to you etc.
No mentioning it when looking for PF members. Basically, your DPS numbers just isn't anyone else's business. End of story.

People who'd like to use it as a tool get to do so, and everyone else can mind their own beeswax.

[Archaell]

all that needs to be done is the parser is there for only the player to see. It's totally private, and they can choose to turn it on or not.

We have discussed this many times. In group environment, when the whole group has to complete the work together, your numbers aren't your private matter.

Edit:

I am starting to think that we need an encounter that whould serve as a wake-up call. Bismark isn't good enough.

We need 4man trial, where healer and tank are locked in their own fight, while each of the dps has to finish dps check on their own target alone otherwise whole party wipes. Set the bar to average expected dps. We will see how many nerf threads will appear.

[XiXiQ]

We have discussed this many times. In group environment, when the whole group has to complete the work together, your numbers aren't your private matter.

They are if the rules say so, and currently they do. That doesn't need to change if a player can see their own numbers.

If you wish to join a group and share, that's fine. people co-operating in this manner are hardly going to be reporting each other for DPS meter infringements.

But just as it is now, if you start using those numbers to harass people you've never met in DF, expect to get pinged for it.

[sirDarts]

They are if the rules say so, and currently they do. That doesn't need to change if a player can see their own numbers.

If you wish to join a group and share, that's fine. people co-operating in this manner are hardly going to be reporting each other for DPS meter infringements.

But just as it is now, if you start using those numbers to harass people you've never met in DF, expect to get pinged for it.

If you use ANYTHING to harass people, you will likely get pinged for it.
A parser does NOT change this.