parse for ps4 users !

[Kosmos992k]

I have no issues with that whatsover. It wouldn't take a genius to figure out if the required content DPS is 1000 one person is doing 1100, the other DPS opted out and the DPS check is not getting met to figure out where the weakest link is. Plus it would still give the other DPS an average result of what they should be aiming for. If it was set to private or public they would be able to still compare (the person using it private). To see if they are close to or nowhere close.

Indeed, and if done this way, it would be a sanctioned parser that might get DoT correct too. But by giving players an option, people can choose to enable when working on a dps check, or new class if they so desire, or disable whenever they don't want or need the numbers. But it doesn't prevent anyone who wants to parse their performance from doing so. The idea was to put the option in each players hands. I think this would be more useful than a simple training dummy parser.

[Kosmos992k]

God I hate doing this on a phone. It really is a hassle, especially with the 1000 char limit.

On that we can agree.

I did not see anyone suggest they would kick based on someone not using a opt in parser. **snip**

There were several posts that characterized that response, I'd have to go back and re-read the thread to pull a quote, which I'm not going to do, because I know we'll end up arguing semantics and interpretation of words, and will not agree.

Now as for yours second paragraph there. It was stated that you were, "ironically" as you like use, making an adjustment to parsers, that would have the effect of giving that abusive portion of the community a target.

I geniunely find it ironic thst people's criticism of a suggestion that would IMO reduce abuse, is to state that it would cause more toxicity. At the same time, the responses described reacting to players 'hiding' their numbers in an entirely negative manner. The implication bring that such players have something to hide. Basically the objection is framed as a self fulfilling prophesy of increased abuse. That is what I consider ironic about the responses.

Your whole thing is abuse, and you make a suggestion that would make the tool more prone to abuse, than less prone, which you should be doing. And then you, oh so grandly, turn aroun and say "I thought they didn't cause abuse!"

Actually, I could not believe that people responded so negatively to implementing a full parser in-game, and giving players the option to opt in or out of participating in the parser. There was nothing grand about it, just a little incredulity.

Now I keep bringing up that "human nature" statement for various reasons:

1. You say it to me for saying people who do not know they are playing poorly are likely to try to improve if they find out they are. And then turn around and ignore the very obvious point of how people would view a team member who hides their contrabution in failing content.

I don't remember thenexact exchange, but if I remember correctly I said you need to learn more about human nature came earlier in that discussion when I was trying to point out that people react negatively to unsolicited advise and criticism, and that an official in-game parser would be abused by a minority of players. I thought you were taking an unrealisticaly positive view on how parser users will in general handle the data, and how players would respond.

2. You state that you dont put people down, yet that is your introductory statement.

I'm sorry this caused so much offense to you, that was not the intent, I was simply saying that I thought you need to learn more about human nature - because I felt you were being unrealustly positive. Nothing less, nothing more. I still think you are not seeing, or looking for the potential down side.

3. You continually point out only negative behaviour of human nature, and ignore positive. That ironic word again.

I'm not ignoring positive behavior at all. However, the impact of negative behavior is far greater than positive. People will remember that one time when someone was a jerk to them and used parser data to do it, but they will not remember the other times when someone suggested an improvement and offered the help of parser data. People who want to improve, will. People who don't care or want to improve won't.

Irony is irony, and often is in the eye of the beholder alone.

All of that aside, you and I clearly have clashing styles and opinions. I did not mean to offend you, and I was not attacking you when I said i thought you needed to learn more about human nature. You have felt offense and attacked, and I am sorry for that. I can't in all honesty say that I would not have posted that with the benefit of hindsight, but had I realized you would feel that way, I might have found a way to make it clearer it was not an attack.

Now the suggestion of seperate queues fully negates the negatives of your "solution" and also has the effect of removing any of those a-hole from harrasing people, unless they intentionally join the other queue to troll. Yet you discard it. This also take the people who would hide their numbers to cover a lack of effort out of the hair of people who do want to show their numbers.

Separate Q's split DF potentially spliting the playerbase and increasing Q times for all. Also, as suggested by several posters, I think that players would eventually gravitate to one or the other Q in an effort to avoid longer Qs, rendering the empty Q redundant. If that happened, either parsing would in effect be mandatory, or parsing would be absent completely in DF. I don't think that would serve either parser advocates, or parser cynics.

[Ercapote]

Need does not equal want...

at any point my good sir I stated that my "needs" are above anyones elses I freely stated my opinon about the topic since we don't have the (option) to have it on ps4 that opinion (not demand) excuse me is pretty valid whether you agree or not that's your personal opinion... but as you say

People who want to parse pay to play the game.

people who don't want to parse pay to play the game.

I don'y know if you where trying to contradict yourself here but like said we all pay for this game, having more options doesn;t take anyones experience, now someone demanding that "useful tool" not to be implemented THEN is when you can tell me that my opinion is not above anyone else, and as I repetealy said (YOU DON'T NEED RUNNING SHOES TO RUN, BUT IT CERTAINLY HELPS and for those who have problems understandind metaphors YOU DON'T NEED A PARSER TO DPS, BUT IT CERTAINLY HELPS) care to read more carefully next time.

Of course the world firsts are going to use the path of least resistance and parse. It gives them the data they want faster than without.

Just because it's not usually done, doesn't mean it's impossible. Does the parser running in the background when they finally have the fight down mean anything to the people playing? Not really they know what they need to do and the numbers just support that they are doing things correctly. Would these clears never happen if people didn't parse? That's the real question.

a real question of which you don't have any back up confirmation to point out why my point where not valid and you are disagreeing with me for. I recommend you to look after your own words it's like you are constantly contradicting yourself. if you tell me a parser is not needed for progression, then prove it...but yet you can't

now about the topic of parser not needed for end-game fights... I can't put this more clear but Yes, Yes it is. please care to explain to me how are you pulling the most out of your abilities? are you using your own rotation or did you got your rotation from someone elses? how did you know you are doing optimal dps? do you know how guides are made? or are you beating every single fight of this hame without a guide? please care to explain to me how PARSERS are no needed? yes you can tell me you can beat stuff without parser but proof me that those world first didn't took the most advantages out of parsers and reason being one hell of a helpfull tool...for any serious progression group is needed to keep track of your dps and how to maximize your dps whiting those fight...

so again...how am I clearly wrong? perhaps you should not stick to words so literal as I see your entire post is base on "a MUST" word on my post instead on looking to it as a hole and breaking it down to your convenience.

[Jynx]

how PARSERS are no needed?

Trial and Error.

Any serious world firster would agree with me that it wouldn't be impossible to complete these fights, it would however probably take much longer, and more theorycraft beforehand instead of letting the parsers do the heavy mathmatical lifting. Optimal Rotiations don't need parsers to figure out it just as stated before makes it much easier to do.

Parsers are conveint no doubt, they are powerfull tools for sure. Are they required?

Nope.

[Ercapote]

Trial and Error.

Any serious world firster would agree with me that it wouldn't be impossible to complete these fights, it would however probably take much longer, and more theorycraft beforehand instead of letting the parsers do the heavy mathmatical lifting. Optimal Rotiations don't need parsers to figure out it just as stated before makes it much easier to do.

Parsers are conveint no doubt, they are powerfull tools for sure. Are they required?

Nope.

how do you think theory crafters craft? my men seriously choose more carefully your words as you keep contradicting yourself...

I replied to you on a update from my last post.

and I undesrtand that with time fight will get easier and the use of parsers aren't needed....but when they fight are open and you are doing content with the lower ilvl possible and you are running to get those WORLD FIRST or just beat the fight in general then yes you need those parsers... that's why I said it's a must if we are to change the settig to our likes then we can say we don't need 8 man sisnce in the future we will be able to solo content...but that's not how it works.

[Whiteroom]

You know any pt clearing any new contents on " time " with out useing parse?

While I do believe any (read: there could be an exception, but I would doubt anything beyond 1%) Savage static who is not fully PS4, are currently using a parser, that you cannot prove it makes your point moot. It is a sad reality for those in favor of pro parser, because any player who admits to it, has the chance of being banned. So while it is generally understood, that arguement means very little here.

That every team clearing content "on time" (I assume you mean before gear that is better than available at the time of release becomes available) cannont be here to vouch for their use, or not use of it, also makes the arguement less valid.

Parsers are conveint no doubt, they are powerfull tools for sure. Are they required?

Nope.

The real arguement has never been if they are required. I'm assuming you realise that.

Saying that they are not required is not an argument against them.

Would the community and game benefit in a more positive than negative manner from thier introduction?

Especially considering SEs fondness of dps checks?

Can SE make new content more challanging at a reasonable pace without their introduction? I believe this is an important one, as I think that as long as the community still has a large portion who can not even do half of their max dps, it hobbles the ability to have progressively more challanging content, and the game will stagnate in the long term.

[Ercapote]

Indeed, and if done this way, it would be a sanctioned parser that might get DoT correct too. But by giving players an option, people can choose to enable when working on a dps check, or new class if they so desire, or disable whenever they don't want or need the numbers. But it doesn't prevent anyone who wants to parse their performance from doing so. The idea was to put the option in each players hands. I think this would be more useful than a simple training dummy parser.

and with that I could not agree more... this is all we need and also for ps4.

[Jynx]

how do you think theory crafters craft?

How did they do it before parsers?

You can disagree with me all you want but just because calculators exist doesn't mean you lost the abillity to do math yourself.

Just because something makes it easier does not mean it's a requirement.

Look you love parsers we get it, but don't run around telling people it's a requirement when it isn't. Is it required to be taken seriously in the endgame community? Now that's a different statement entirely and due to the current social climate within the game and people obviously wanting to take the path of least resistance in what is admitadly a gruelingly difficult set of DPS checks of course that is a entirely different thing.

Would savage be beaten by now without parsers? I'm not sure I imagine it would have taken longer mainly for people to manually parse their data. Will I point my thumb down at raiders who parse? of course not it's a usefull tool for them and their goals, do I support a personal parser? Yes I do I feel it would help the game populace in general with a 0 downside for raiders or players if anything I encourage the game to reward players for being able to produce results for reaching milestones.

Does this make your statements any less wrong? No they don't.

snip.

Your obviously oblivious to the point I'm trying to make I'll stop trying to explain it and leave you with it. parsers are not "Required" they are an amazing tool nothing else.

[Ercapote]

snip.

how they did it? they didn't.... parser has been around since EQ1 era and that's a looooong time and well as it has been on ff14 for a loong time too it's nothing new, and if you seriusly thinking someone can manually parser you should go back ans see how a parser work and what they do my man.

Man... are you contradicting yourself on purpose?

you keep saying my point is wrong, yet you failed to explain how I'm wrong. And I'm not disagreeing with you my man, you are disagreeing with me, my point stand valid and strong with back up validation and information something you keep failing at telling and proving me why I'm wrong. instead you keep bouncing on this nonsense sea of "I don't even know what point you are trying to proof?

parsers are not "Required" they are an amazing tool nothing else.

technically -no, theoretically -yes, practically -hell yes!

btw thinking back

if you read back to my other post you will see that I agreed with what you where "trying to say" I'll quote here so you can see it.

"and I undesrtand that with time fight will get easier and the use of parsers aren't needed....but when they fight are open and you are doing content with the lower ilvl possible and you are running to get those WORLD FIRST or just beat the fight in general then yes you need those parsers... that's why I said it's a must if we are to change the settig to our likes then we can say we don't need 8 man sisnce in the future we will be able to solo content...but that's not how it works."

and as the lady said... that was not the topic of my post nor is the topic of this post. so with anything I need to add toward you let's keep this on topic.

[Kotemon]

Judging by the topic and pages..., well I'll bite anyway. Old topic been answered and been done. People already parse on PC and if you're on a PS4, they can give you a parse reading (I think). Just find someone to group up with and ask them to give you a reading and rotation advise if you're that determined. I'm sure there are large FC's out there have folks that will give parse data off the dummies, around the world. For the folks they'd know or trust by my assumption. The alternative is to get good at several rotations and keep precise track of all your timers. I'm almost certain before parse data folks used math and flow charts to calculate the most efficient cycle based on stat modifiers, items, gear and timers. Parse programs likely came about to make the number crunching more accurate and easier to do.

Although I'd be careful with this whole thread in general. It might give spam-bots a new ad idea, and then there is the in-fighting among players it'll cause.