parse for ps4 users !

[kazeandi]

Just reading this forum should give one an idea why a parser might support antisocial behavior.

[MentheusDreyar]

@ thread

Like I keep saying it is ignorant to assume that when you give people tools they won't use them.

And it's ignorant of you to assume everyone will misuse that tool just because the possibility exists. Again baseless fearmongering.

And players would infact harasse over numbers if it wasn't bannable, but using a parser is bannable. Whats stop anyone in this thread reporting any person for parser use from anyone of the parser crowd, And you can't factually claim "i use a parser but i don't care about df, so one no does." When i had years of experience with people giving a dam.

There we go again, trying to state your assumptions are fact.

And i'll say it once again to drill it into your ignorant head, parser's are NOT a ban-able offense, targeting and abusing players with the data is, go ahead and report us for using one, nothing will happen without proving we are legitimately harassing other players with it. Otherwise based on your "logic" and i use that term extremely loosely, all the world first teams would have been banned long ago.

Now i've played all these MMO's you keep drawing your "experience" from, and i can say i very rarely encountered the kind of behavior you seem to be convinced will happen all the time. From an outside perspective those who cause the problems are far more likely to encounter them. Think on that for a minute

All your "experience" is, is a biased POV. Experience holds no weight without being able to back it up with facts and data.

Its not fear mongering to know that this would happen, nor ignorance. Its actually ignoent to clainm it wouldn't happen. People did it in WoW often. I can't rell you how much content shouts i saw with must parse 1200 or some stuff. Some guilds even required you to parse at least 1100 before you joined them.

Again, trying to say your assumptions are facts, a perfect display of ignorance. No one is claiming people won't abuse it, but it will mostly be the people who are currently abusing others that do so. So ultimately nothing will really change in that regard. Not to mention people in general in this community can't take the tiniest bit of criticism without calling it harassment, which it plain isn't. And trust me, a large amount of "harassment" in this game is actually taking criticism way out of proportion and only they see it as harassment.

I haven't even heard of someone getting banned for using parser data to help someone, hell i do it all the time, as it's clear from anyone with an ounce of common sense that it's not abuse of a parser. I'm still waiting on my ban from SE

The "abuse" and "harassment" is a biased POV of the person under criticism.

Hell of alot worst in Aion though, but similar happen in dcuo once a official parser was released, but that was more over mic then anything.

Encountered almost zero harassment and abuse in Aion and DCUO, only those who actually deserved it. So i'd call your "experience" biased at best. Personal experience doesn't hold any weight in an argument unless you can back it up with actual factual data.

the only thing thats really ignorent is claiming parser are the cause of everything,

Wait so you're admitting you are ignorant? Because that statement as basically a summary of your entire argument right there , you suddenly go from "parser causes all toxicity in games they shouldn't be in" to admitting it's ignorant to think they do? If you're gonna troll at least keep your story straight...

Mostly because your acting like people on pc are the best players due to having access to parser.

No one is saying this? What baseless assumption are you working off now? Seriously, i'm starting to think you really are a troll as i can't actually believe someone can be this ignorant.

Players who harass should not be the determinant on the rest of the game. That is punishing the majority for the sake of preventing the minority.

Which sadly no one seems to be able to understand.

[Azazua_azura]

@ drayer
Parser is a third party tool, third party tools are against the ToS. Parser use is currently Under a Don't ASK, Don't TELL.

Anyone one person here can be reported on for third party tool use if they claim to use a parser. Which yes its a bannable offence.
The fact you say that alone Its not, is funny when infact it is.

And i read all your posts in full, you come off like parser did everthing in this game from, factoring the best players, best combos, stat waights. This being on ps3 and ps4 prevents that from being factually true, if this was pc only then that would hold water.

Was what I said suppose to represent harrassment? nope just exclusion. Which is what I was presenting I don't think any of my posts said anything about harrassment.
I don't want a ingame parser to give the community tools, use it in DF content and exclude players, more so new players from getting things done. Which will happen. That isn't fear mongering, nor is it baseless. Its basic human nature.

If you give people the tools and the numbers They will use it to judge players and exclude players in PF (non-issue) and DF (the issue). This game is already starting to have a less new player friendly community, adding an ingame parser would make it more so. And you can't report it as it falls under the "Difference in playstyle".

And no I'm not trolling, nor fear mongering just don't want to see the DF system to become some exclusive club. And not having a parser isn't punishing anyone.
And please stop using terms minority and majority as these terms have no facts either way in any case or point of view.

And your posts do come off that having a parser is make or break, that not having one is bad. The only thing i see from the parser argument is you guys don't like the anti-parser views and believe the only reason we don't want one is so people see our "shoddy dps numbers". Which isn't true at least for me.

You also believe one can't improve with out a parser, which again isn't factually true.

I have yet to see anything resembaling a fact, just conjecture.

[Archaell]

...

Exclusion is it then. That's great it feels a lil bit like progress.

Have you ever thought that exclusion can be used to protect people?

Let me give you few examples that might infuriate some of the anti-parsers. Would you say that it is bad when there are female only FCs? Which are made to protect their members from harassment? Or mature FCs that are there to avoid irresponsibility of younger players?

Well the same applies to FCs who would want to invite only players of specific skill. If you can't do your part in fights it might create toxic environment and so this requirement prevents that.

Now for the DF. Can parser be used to protect players in DF? Absolutely. It can protect hard trying players from the Netflixers of Slackerdom.

Just today I could have used parser on several occasions, and I mean the other person having parser - not me. I got several way too undergeared players in my groups that if they were not there nothing much would change. I am not that type of person to kick them from group, but if they saw how pitiful their contribution was, maybe they would consider at least visiting local market board to gear up.

Here is the main thing the people who fear parsers are totally ignoring - when you join a group you are supposed to meaningfully contribute. If you can't do that then you do not deserve to be there. It's that simple. Yet right now there is no way to protect players that try they best from these exploiters who do not care. Parser isn't going to fix this on its own of course and here is where your exclusion comes from. If you are not willing to pull your weight then you get called out first and if you continue doing this kind of harmful behaviour you are going to be kicked. To protect the rest of the group. Simple.

You fear that new players might be excluded... well yes they might be. They might be excluded from content that they are not prepared to clear (be it gear, or be it skill). If you are not good enough to do something, then you should never ever expect others to carry you through it. You are basicaly imposing your work loadout on strangers without giving anything in return. Would you expect strangers to do your job for you and for free? No. Because it is immoral. Yet not many players in-game care when it comes to carrying...

So yeah. If it were not for all the bad/slacking players, maybe parser would not be as much supported.

[MentheusDreyar]

@ drayer
Parser is a third party tool, third party tools are against the ToS. Parser use is currently Under a Don't ASK, Don't TELL.

Anyone one person here can be reported on for third party tool use if they claim to use a parser. Which yes its a bannable offence.
The fact you say that alone Its not, is funny when infact it is.

Did i say they aren't against ToS? NO. The only reason that rule is in place is because SE is a software company and they have to have the grounds to protect their products in the event they deem it necessary. But the actual rule itself is not really enforced in any way other than when abuse of the tool comes into play. Which is my whole point. As long as you aren't using it to abuse other players SE don't really care as long as you aren't borderline advertising them. Otherwise i'd have been banned a long time ago...

And i read all your posts in full, you come off like parser did everthing in this game from, factoring the best players, best combos, stat waights. This being on ps3 and ps4 prevents that, if this was pc only then that would hold water.

And you come off like a brick wall of ignorance? So what's your point? Oh look more assumptions

The FACT is parsers were used to calculate the best and optimal rotations and stat weights, the fact you think they weren't is incredibly naive and show's your lack of knowledge in this area so stop trying to argue otherwise.
No one is saying parsers are responsible for ALL of the best players, but most definitely the high end world first type of best players and most certainly the majority because in one way or another they are using data gathered from a parser.

If you give people the tools and the numbers They will use it to judge players and exclude players in PF (non-issue) and DF (the issue). This game is already starting to have a less new player friendly community

Again, baseless assumptions. And the game is just as unfriendly towards new player's as any other game online. That's nothing new.

And not having a parser isn't punishing anyone. And please stop using terms minority and majority as these terms have no facts either way in any case or point of view.

It's punishing those on console that want to benefit from the tool but have no way of running 3rd party programs. You want to remove options for other players because of a minority of bad apples? You don't see how incredibly stupid that is? Quit being so selfish because of your baseless assumptions of other people and fearmongering of parsers.

The majority/minority argument holds more weight than your baseless assumptions that have generally been proven wrong throughout every parser topic.

The only thing i see from the parser argument is you guys don't like the anti-parser views

Because over and over again your views have been proven to be baseless, misinformed, ignorant and just plain stupid and wrong.

and believe the only reason we don't want one is so people see our "shoddy dps numbers".

Well the more outlandish and stupid replies we get to defend against having a parser, more and more this seems like an accurate statement.

And because no one anti-parser has answered any of the important question's we've asked them and have purposefully ignored them over and over, i'd say for the majority it's probably true.

You also believe one can't improve with out a parser, which again isn't factually true

Not saying you can't, the whole point is that a parser gives you the information you need in a more attractive and easier to understand layout than what the game provides. Why would you not use it? It's clearly a convenient and superior tool for helping you assess yourself and others performance and look for ways to improve.

I have yet to see anything resembaling a fact, just conjecture.

So basically you haven't read any of the pro parser points in any thread within the forum then?

Honestly I'm done, because you clearly don't bother taking in anything other people are saying... I'm not wasting any more time banging my head on a brick wall getting you to listen.

Snip.

+1

[raelgun]

You also believe one can't improve with out a parser, which again isn't factually true.

I have yet to see anything resembaling a fact, just conjecture.

Name one thing in this world and I really mean it, name one thing that people do that is performance related that improves upon something that have no comparable metric to go by, a DPS parser is a metric to go by, every improvement is measured against something and you need to know exactly what that measure is.

Every performance related activity has a metric to compare against, this is how every one improves, quick example Olympic athletes.

[Gilraen]

Name one thing in this world and I really mean it, name one thing that people do that is performance related that improves upon something that have no comparable metric to go by

Building something. The elements are comparable; the blueprint is the dungeon, the build quality is in completing the dungeon or beating the boss, inspection is in the victory. If the everyone does their job that's the end of it and the inspector gives a parting wave, that is to say loot is awarded and everyone jumps in the portal. This is the case of near every dungeon I've run, there were no obvious slackards and the dungeon finished without consequence. I've had fast runs and slow runs and really slow runs but a bad run is a rare occurrence.

[kingatlas]

Ok
So I think this whole thing went off topic.

Think the OP was asking for ps4 parser.

Not Are you guys for or against parsers.

No you will never get a parser for ps4 for this game, SE doesn't have one for PC so they aren't going to give one to ps4.
Simple. Done.


PS. As for pro or con for parsers. TBH no one gives a crap about your opinion here, for or against.
Why, because you cant change anyone's mind about anything here.
This isn't a debate forum for intelligent conversation.
Its just a place for people to scream their opinion at each other.

[Odett]

Building something. The elements are comparable; the blueprint is the dungeon, the build quality is in completing the dungeon or beating the boss, inspection is in the victory. If the everyone does their job that's the end of it and the inspector gives a parting wave, that is to say loot is awarded and everyone jumps in the portal. This is the case of near every dungeon I've run, there were no obvious slackards and the dungeon finished without consequence. I've had fast runs and slow runs and really slow runs but a bad run is a rare occurrence.

So when a DPS check isn't being met, how do you know who's getting in the way of a clear? After four+ wipes at exactly the same DPS check phase of the fight, how can you pinpoint the problem? Wouldn't you like to know why a DPS check isn't being met and deal with the problem, rather than disbanding the entire group?

[Gilraen]

Ok
So I think this whole thing went off topic.

It was off-topic before it even started. Chif's opening post was a rather ignorant statement that PS4 players should get a parser cause 'all' PC players have one, which isn't true in the slightest. I played on PC for all of my time in 1.0 and much of the Beta and not once looked up much less used a parser. I kind of like my PC as virus free as I can keep it, one of the biggest issues of third party software use and one alot of players, PC or not, are wary of (it's because of this vulnerability of PCs that Square implemented a security token in XI and maintained it's presence since). But that doesn't seem to matter to Chif, his assertion is that 'all' good players use parsers and the PS4 'needs' one.

So when a DPS check isn't being met, how do you know who's getting in the way of a clear?

I haven't been in many groups where a 'DPS check' not being met was the result of someone slacking. I was in some of the early Alexander runs and there were a few where we wiped to Self Destruct, but it wasn't because of slacking. At least, not outright slacking. Sometimes one DD would be left with two spiders while the other DD on that particular boss just kept wailing on the boss, causing that one DD observing mechanics to get Mini'd. Or the one holding the spiders would receive the blessing of RNGesus and get bombed while trying to kill the spiders. Generally, shit happens and you have to look at the fight from more than just the angle of the 'DPS check'. I, personally, never give up on a fight until everyone gives up and by that time, well, everyone's given up so there's no point pointing fingers at anyone.