parse for ps4 users !

[Misutoraru]

The number of places where bad DPS can directly result in a wipe due to mechanics are exceedingly few, though. Fights will take longer, sure, which may or may not indirectly result in a wipe, but a tank who can't tank or a healer who can't heal will result in your party dying in most cases. Damage dealers get away with being bad, not always, but definitely a lot more often than tanks and healers do.

The message is clear ppl support it mainly want something to improve out put
ppl against it mainly due to the possible misuse and harassment
Don't you thin if we all focus on how to implement a tool that will help improved output but won't lead to misuse and harassment is what we all want
Aren't this what we seeking for?

[seekified]

The message is clear ppl support it mainly want something to improve out put
ppl against it mainly due to the possible misuse and harassment
Don't you thin if we all focus on how to implement a tool that will help improved output but won't lead to misuse and harassment is what we all want
Aren't this what we seeking for?

Absolutely. I think it's true that harassment about DPS is already happening though, and it's pretty easy to notice when at least the party DPS isn't good, so I personally don't see increased harassment as an issue. And, as people have also said, studies have been done on this in other MMOs and haven't found any correlation between parsers and increased harassment.

If an ingame parser was presented in a positive way with hint windows and encouraging texts, people would get used to it pretty quickly. Or so I hope.

[MentheusDreyar]

The message is clear ppl support it mainly want something to improve out put
ppl against it mainly due to the possible misuse and harassment
Don't you thin if we all focus on how to implement a tool that will help improved output but won't lead to misuse and harassment is what we all want
Aren't this what we seeking for?

Except ultimately the ideas clash because of all the over-reacting fear mongering done by the anti parser crowd. We want a parser added so people can both improve and also so we can get an idea of the ability of the party in whatever group content we are doing and find out what's going wrong and how to fix it. And there's the basis of the problem, people seem to think they will get harassed "just because" when in reality they will only get "harassed" when they are not performing how the game expects them to, which frankly is a bar set so low a brainless monkey could meet it. And this is in itself a form of harassment to the rest of the party. And when it comes down to it, 1 person is not more important than the party as a whole.

What we can't seem to get them to realize is:

YOU WILL ONLY GET HARASSED IF YOU GIVE PEOPLE A REASON TO 99% OF THE TIME.

People are so afraid of being criticized while part of a group they would rather ruin the game for everyone else than accept any form of responsibility.

And, as people have also said, studies have been done on this in other MMOs and haven't found any correlation between parsers and increased harassment.

And sadly another thing the anti parser crowd ignore when its been proven over and over again because they have no legitimate argument against it

[_slowpoke_]

YOU WILL ONLY GET HARASSED IF YOU GIVE PEOPLE A REASON TO 99% OF THE TIME.

Um, no. That's just plain victim blaming, full stop. The blame for harassment lies solely on the people doing the harassment. The end.

You can absolutely criticize people or tell them that they are not pulling their weight. That's not harassment, obviously (and no one ever claimed it is). But if you're gonna be an asshole about it, that's on you, and no one else. There's no justification to harass people, with or without parsers.

[Archaell]

Um, no. That's just plain victim blaming, full stop. The blame for harassment lies solely on the people doing the harassment. The end.

Sorry to say it, but you are wrong. Are you trying to tell me that there is no way you as the player could provoke someone else to harass you? Could we get an opinion of a proffesional troll pls?

What Mentheus meant was: The more you do something other players dislike, the more likely you might get harassed for it. Like tank that enrages when you keep ninja pulling and stuff. In most cases there is a trigger behind the harassment.

[MentheusDreyar]

Snip.

Except 99% of the time the "harassment" people complain about its literally just criticism, that's it. They just perceive it that way out of sheer ignorance because they are the ones under the spotlight. I'm not arguing there won't be assholes who cross that line into blatant harassment, but after two years of playing the amount of assholes I've encountered i can count on one hand, which is why i said 99% of the time.

So again, give people no reason and they won't do anything to you. But you surely know the standard response to any form of criticism in this community is basically "Go F@$% yourself" right? Which provokes people past the line of just criticism. Many of those under criticism fuel the fires of their own harassment. I've seen it often enough to make an actual observation on it.

Snip.

Thank You Archaell for your support, you probably summed it up better than i did.

[Whiteroom]

Um, no. That's just plain victim blaming, full stop. The blame for harassment lies solely on the people doing the harassment. The end.

You can absolutely criticize people or tell them that they are not pulling their weight. That's not harassment, obviously (and no one ever claimed it is). But if you're gonna be an asshole about it, that's on you, and no one else. There's no justification to harass people, with or without parsers.

While there may be no justification for it, this does not mean there is not a cause. I agree 100% that one should not be harassed for it, but that does not make his point less valid.

What does, are things like a reddit linked thread over in the "The issue noone wants to address" thread. This thread was a sampling of someone secretly parsing 100 Alex normal runs. On something like 16 different occasions, a low scoring dps called out other higher scoring dps as being the poor players.

Of course this wouldn't happen if there were a parser in game though, as everyone could see the abuser was wrong.

[whiskeybravo]

On something like 16 different occasions, a low scoring dps called out other higher scoring dps as being the poor players.

I don't think that's 100% valid though. There are plenty of situations where generally excellent players screw something up because they play aggresively, pushing the boundaries, and that can easily turn sour when it doesn't work as intended. I'm not talking about tunnel-vision stuff, but in general it's certainly a possibility that the "better" player could've messed up.

I don't know the context of that particular discussion, if was only enrage issues (and not mechanics) then yes it seems pretty ignorant for the lower scoring player to call out the higher scoring one. We are only as smart as the information available to us

[Whiteroom]

I don't think that's 100% valid though. There are plenty of situations where generally excellent players screw something up because they play aggresively, pushing the boundaries, and that can easily turn sour when it doesn't work as intended. I'm not talking about tunnel-vision stuff, but in general it's certainly a possibility that the "better" player could've messed up.

I don't know the context of that particular discussion, if was only enrage issues (and not mechanics) then yes it seems pretty ignorant for the lower scoring player to call out the higher scoring one. We are only as smart as the information available to us

Have a look at that thread for the context. I would link, but I'm on my phone. While it was a small sample size he used. It's interesting. Also I don't think you understood the context from what I wrote. Better to go to the source. By lower scoring dps, he rated it at 200 dps for single target. A great player would have to die pretty early on to have those numbers. And if they were alive, wouldn't put up those numbers, regardless of trying something a little agressive.

[Odett]

Um, no. That's just plain victim blaming, full stop. The blame for harassment lies solely on the people doing the harassment. The end.

You can absolutely criticize people or tell them that they are not pulling their weight. That's not harassment, obviously (and no one ever claimed it is). But if you're gonna be an asshole about it, that's on you, and no one else. There's no justification to harass people, with or without parsers.

This is definitely true in a RL scenario, but you would be surprised as to what some players in this game can define as harassment. I've come across situations where I've told a NIN "Huton is your friend", I've seen it not applied, and say 5 minutes later "you should try to use Huton, it's a huge boost to your DPS" and be told "STFU and worry about yourself"; that player was in no way a victim.