parse for ps4 users !

[LaylaTsarra]

So you ignore every constructive post about the advantages of parsers and instead choose to reply to these types of responses. How are you contributing to this thread?

You certainly haven't been reading his or her posts. I would venture to say they been some of the more reasoned and well thought out posts here. Try taking the time to actually read them.

[Whiteroom]

You certainly haven't been reading his or her posts. I would venture to say they been some of the more reasoned and well thought out posts here. Try taking the time to actually read them.

Tbh, she has ignored everything that refutes her points. And has taken offense to constructive critism at her half baked ideas. She intentionally makes suggestions that would actually make parsers more prone to abuse, and then basically says "see, you even admit that people will rampantly abuse them!", when you point these things out. If you offer a totally reasonable suggestion that would make hers work, she ignores it or intentionally misinterpets it.

At first I took it as an extreme bias, based on a parents protective instinct, something I can fully understand, even if I dont agree with her view. But as I have read her posts I have been leaning to more selfish reasons. People have been reading them, at least at the start, and refuting each one. After the above listed behaviour, along with a few condecending and backhanded "I'm done!" posts, is it any wonder effort is not put into responding.

Tbh, I don't agree for a second with Chifs reasoning, and think very little of him. Though I think a lot of it is a language barrier thing on his part, he could probably try a bit harder to make his points clear. But as is, to me he represents a mirror to kosmos. He sees only what he wants and posts it, ignoring any good points and spraying ingnorant blab all ver his posts.

I think it's good to have him talk though, as I feel he is of that small crowd that would be rough with them and working off of half truths an no longer important info to make his assumptions. That he is one of so few to speak that way highlights the difference from being pro-parser and your a-hole elitest. Also he demosrates perfectly the additude you would see from one of them versus someone using it to properly evaluate troublesome runs.

DC Universe has an in-game scoreboard. It's not a parser, per se, but it shows damage and stuff:

It shows more than just that as well. I can't remember how many pages there are, three or four. DCUOs has the glaring issue of not showning the class or role either. Also, each job can swap between dps and their support role, so that can skew your reading of it, if you werent in the run. One here would be much more clear, if only for not being able to swap roles. I can't remember if one of the pages actually has a dps stat or not though. You can pull it up at any time to see how each persons numbers moved after a boss or mob though.

You can view this one at any time, its just much more clumsy than an overlay. I took part in a couple of discussions of it while I played the game and there were numerous suggestions for improvement. It was an example of a clumsy scoreboard that you really had to understand to read.

[Odett]

You certainly haven't been reading his or her posts. I would venture to say they been some of the more reasoned and well thought out posts here. Try taking the time to actually read them.

I have, and her points have been answered again and again. "Why do you need to know your number?" Because some players want to see how much damage they are doing, and yes, you can read your skills and understand how your job works, but there is so much more that can be answered outside of that. NIN is a great example for this. Mudra lag exists, and I'd like to know how much of it is getting in the way of my DPS. How can test out for myself, without a parser, if going the Fuma Shuriken route would increase or decrease my DPS?

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, sometimes, honestly, because the following question keeps being brought up but there is never an answer to it. What do you do when nobody in a fight is dying, mechanics are done correctly, and you are still wiping? How do you find out why you are failing DPS checks in fights when everyone is alive? Why would you not want a way to measure DPS without splitting your head open with the combat log and see what the problem is, so you can fix it instead of starting the fight again after four+ wipes in the same section, not changing anything (because you can't figure out what the problem is) and expecting different results?

Also (unless they are posting as an alt, then I am very sorry), how much credibility can you give to a person who doesn't have a single DoW/DoM job at 60 and has absolutely zero first-hand experience with the current endgame content?

[Archaell]

...

I think that by now we have estabilished that Chif wants to be the best - to clear the content first.

Have any of the world first groups claimed that they done it without the parser? I totally admit assumption on my part, but I find it highly unlikely.

btw. I would also blame the language barrier for a part of Chif's straightforwardness.

[Odett]

This is what I mean by 'eating shoes'... people clear new content without the help of parsers all the time. It's called learning by doing and falls under the purview of knowledge. The idea is simple, go in and learn the mechanics. Once you have the mechanics down it becomes much easier. One of Odett's own examples is a prime... example of learning the dungeon. Pharos Sirius, which I never beat as healer before the nerf, was the healer's dungeon. It was really hard on the healer and before the nerf required you learn the mechanics of the fights really well. I was only really able to beat it as Bard where I could keep the puppies busy to the side, pick off the right eggs and keep Siren's mouth shut. And this was before the nerfs. And never did anyone talk about low DPS in any of my runs.

Your have solid points, but you cannot use 4 person content and the Normal mode version of a raid while ignoring everything else (like all the fights I listed above). The DPS required for current 8 person raiding content is much higher than any of the examples you've listed. DPS checks exist in this game, and wiping due to failed DPS checks on current raid content is a very real thing. Once people learn mechanics, there are no deaths, and certain sections of the fight are still not being cleared, or the boss reaches the enrage timer, trust me when I say that things can get very frustrating if you don't have a means of finding out why. Why is it frustrating? Because no one is dying, it seems like you're doing everything you're supposed to, but you keep losing. With a parser, if low DPS is a problem after all this, then you can start working on that and addressing that. Realizing "my damage is a bit low compared to everyone else's" or "all we gotta do now is have this person improve their DPS" can bring positivity to this occurrence, because this knowledge gives you something to work towards and a hope that fixing this problem will net you a victory, instead of the very frustrating "we seem to be doing everything right, yet we keep wiping again and again. What do?".

[Azazua_azura]

Ppl clear new content because they are useing parse with out parse no 1 can clear any new content on time .I know ppl afraid from parse because they can't doing good dps and ppl will kick them as some ppl said ... Raiding ppl have parse already, screenshot ppl don't want it , I need answers from SE. if they not addit ,changing for pc ,easy for me .if they addit ineedit ppl who want to improve skills need it .as I said before this parse not lligle but 90% from pc user use it . I want ps4 user have all options same as pc to clear content if the parse not important why raiding ppl use it ????

npot everyone can calculate ration on the fly thats all a parser does. Not all raiders use them, because not all raiders are pc. A good portion of jp players are console and raid on console. I raided in content before the parser wars started back on ff11. Only post wow mmo parse to my understanding because i didn't hear of parser till post WoW.

@whiteroom

And that is absolutely true. People on the pro parse side are forgetting human nature. So i agree with that person as I've been saying that from the start. A fact people continue to undermind.
My stance has been DF exclusion and everyone 1 of the counter points against mine can be summed up as "you're a fear mongering idiot, who has no idea what she is talking about, you're just a troll." Even though what i stated was true. Which has been throught history human nature will use tools given to them to exclude others.

They also act like you NEED parser to play the game (again not true)

@ anc

its not your call to controll how a player can play their character, DF is suppose to be all inclusive, if you want to be exclusionary that is what pf is for.

And i'm sorry but i do have personal experience with the negativity on being exclusionary.
I quit WoW for a number a reasons and often went back to try again, one thing I DISPISE is addon/tool enforcement. I did want to give WoW a solid try because i found the game fun, but pretty much the commuinity kicked me out, tey mass reported me for being called a w-h-0-r-3. And heavily insulted me when i couldn't downlown their required addons, being called lazy at the least i can't repeat what the worstr of it was, All due to the pc was shared across 5 people.

I do not wanna sree that shi in ff14, I don't want people to experience what I was subjected to. I'm autistic ffs, I have a hard enough time in the real would from exclusion, i don't wanna see it in a video game of all places, its completely petty and childish to jump on people who don't meet your rediculous standards.

Shut the f up with the fear mongering finger pointing. ZYou pro parser people ruin perfectly fun games with ur rediculous mindsets. Its all numbers numbers numbers. sry but not all games are about numbers. If you guyts can't figure out a dps check w/o a tool how can you claim to be a gamer ><

Sorry i'm just fking pissed off from the level of immaturity of some people.

Having an exclusive DF is NOT something we need, if other players performance bug you that much, you have issues. Start playing with people of your opinion/mindset and stop forcing your stupid mindset on everyone.

If you need a parser to do a basic mathmatical ratio stop playing a game and go learn ratio calulations cuz that all a fking parser does does the math for you.

@ oddet

shut the f up you are being a dick to kosmos. I read all ur replies all you do is belittle them, stfu already and stop trying to one up kosmos, you act like my ex boyfriend........


@ whiteroom

sirdarts chif drayer i can't spell everyones name. Anc acts like it a bit. Pretty much every pro parser person who replied to me since i said VERY NICELY parser are not needed. I was picked apart, and called a troll. Even thought what I said was the truth, they just don't wanna see it as such. Or rather don't believe it.

You also can't rebuff what you stated, thats contradicting yourself.

this has been what has been (paraphrased)

1) parsers are needed for dps checks
2) anyone against parsers are scared their low dps will be kicked. (stated as all people who don't parse suck)
3) parser figure everything out from rotations to stat waights.
4) parser are needed to improve.
5) anyone against parser is a fear mongering troll
6) parser are not against the ToS


those are stated as facts time and time again. Thing is they are not facts at all, just assumptions/conjecture.

What is fact is human nature, people will set rediculous standards based on personal performance, and exclude anyone who can't reach it, this has been going on fir Eons. Given the tools and ideals people will exclude others. I don't care if people do it in pf. I don't want to see it in DF, and if a parser is put ingame all content will be subjected to it.

And people undermind the reality of that down playing it for their cause (again human nature) or going as far as to say, who cares if people are excluded it forces them to be better.

Thing is you can't force a person to learn, nor should you force your ideals/mindset/playstyle them.

I have autism, it effects my coordination, should I be excluded for something i can't control? Should i be treated poorly over something arbitrary?

I'm not lazy, and do everythinbg i can to improve. I'm not good at reading numarical data outside %'s geomarty and trig, so i should be penilized?

[Whiteroom]

@ whiteroom

sirdarts chif drayer i can't spell everyones name. Anc acts like it a bit. Pretty much every pro parser person who replied to me since i said VERY NICELY parser are not needed. I was picked apart, and called a troll. Even thought what I said was the truth, they just don't wanna see it as such. Or rather don't believe it.

You also can't rebuff what you stated, thats contradicting yourself.

this has been what has been (paraphrased)

1) parsers are needed for dps checks
2) anyone against parsers are scared their low dps will be kicked. (stated as all people who don't parse suck)
3) parser figure everything out from rotations to stat waights.
4) parser are needed to improve.
5) anyone against parser is a fear mongering troll
6) parser are not against the ToS


those are stated as facts time and time again. Thing is they are not facts at all, just assumptions/conjecture.

What is fact is human nature, people will set rediculous standards based on personal performance, and exclude anyone who can't reach it, this has been going on fir Eons. Given the tools and ideals people will exclude others. I don't care if people do it in pf. I don't want to see it in DF, and if a parser is put ingame all content will be subjected to it.

And people undermind the reality of that down playing it for their cause (again human nature) or going as far as to say, who cares if people are excluded it forces them to be better.

Thing is you can't force a person to learn, nor should you force your ideals/mindset/playstyle them.

I have autism, it effects my coordination, should I be excluded for something i can't control? Should i be treated poorly over something arbitrary?

I'm not lazy, and do everythinbg i can to improve. I'm not good at reading numarical data outside %'s geomarty and trig, so i should be penilized?

Did you really just do this? I ask you to provide quotes where people have made these claims, that you have been claiming they are making all along, and you just restate your false claims!?

Think about that, just think about. You are in fact, putting words in peoples mouths, and then arguing those points. The only one that has come close to being stated is the TOS one (aside from what chif has said, but really, has anyone taken him seriously in this discussion?). Which really has no bearing on parsers being a positive or negative btw.

Directly quote where this has been said or stop claiming it. You are making false statements otherwise. Thats why people have called you a troll. You are making wild claims that your assumptions are scientific fact, thats why you have been called a Fearmonger. And that you have been "NICELY" stating things?!? For real? Didn't you tell someone to:

GROW THE F UP

On top of that you have used your claim that your "27 years of gaming" gives you more insight into them then us lowly plebs, despite not knowing anything about our gaming history, while stating that others don't even need a fully leveled character to have a correct opinion. ( Of course, that only seems to matter when their opinion is the same as yours.)

[Sapphic]

I have autism, it effects my coordination, should I be excluded for something i can't control? Should i be treated poorly over something arbitrary?

I'm not lazy, and do everythinbg i can to improve. I'm not good at reading numarical data outside %'s geomarty and trig, so i should be penilized?

If content is being cleared, no one really cares unless you are doing a quarter or even a 5th of your expected DPS. But in content that requires a minumum amount of contribution and you are physically unable to meet that requirement, then unfortunatelly you cannot expect random players to make it up, especially if it is preventing the rest of the party from being able to clear content. If everyone is awars initially and fine with it then thats different. If I'm doing 1300 DPS and you are doing 700, it wouldn't matter if content is being cleared. If I'm doing 1300 DPS and your doing 200 and content is unable to be cleared, then you are preventing 3 or 7 other people from enjoying the game how they want to by clearing content. Is that fair?

Theres a video taken from an infamously more toxic community then FFXIV on youtube that proves a point in regards to people caring if content is still getting cleared with having someone making nigh on zero contribution to the success of the endeavour. I'm taking about WoW. Aka, no one does.

Theres no solid, facual, indisputable evidence saying the community toxicity will increase or decrease or even stay the same. All we can do is predict (which is far from an accurate science) based on personal experience.

But what we should not do is exagerate to prove a point, or devalue "evidence" that is garnered the same way as what you have stated to, yet again, try and give your opinion higher credence.

Just remember though, we already have parsers in game.

I suggested opt-in parsing where parsing is available in-game,

I have no issues with that whatsover. It wouldn't take a genius to figure out if the required content DPS is 1000 one person is doing 1100, the other DPS opted out and the DPS check is not getting met to figure out where the weakest link is. Plus it would still give the other DPS an average result of what they should be aiming for. If it was set to private or public they would be able to still compare (the person using it private). To see if they are close to or nowhere close.

[Kosmos992k]

I have no issues with that whatsover. It wouldn't take a genius to figure out if the required content DPS is 1000 one person is doing 1100, the other DPS opted out and the DPS check is not getting met to figure out where the weakest link is. Plus it would still give the other DPS an average result of what they should be aiming for. If it was set to private or public they would be able to still compare (the person using it private). To see if they are close to or nowhere close.

Indeed, and if done this way, it would be a sanctioned parser that might get DoT correct too. But by giving players an option, people can choose to enable when working on a dps check, or new class if they so desire, or disable whenever they don't want or need the numbers. But it doesn't prevent anyone who wants to parse their performance from doing so. The idea was to put the option in each players hands. I think this would be more useful than a simple training dummy parser.

[Ercapote]

Indeed, and if done this way, it would be a sanctioned parser that might get DoT correct too. But by giving players an option, people can choose to enable when working on a dps check, or new class if they so desire, or disable whenever they don't want or need the numbers. But it doesn't prevent anyone who wants to parse their performance from doing so. The idea was to put the option in each players hands. I think this would be more useful than a simple training dummy parser.

and with that I could not agree more... this is all we need and also for ps4.