WHMs and their toolkits

[Ghishlain]

-snip-

Welp, I think at this time we'll just need to agree to disagree. It's clear I won't be able to convenience you that Asylum is worth your time and you certainly won't convince me that Asylum is useless because there are better ways to optimize WHM.

Hmm... Just so I understand better, what's the problem with Asylum to begin with? A ground HoT so? What's the matter here?

*Shrugs* I'm not sure either. To me it's underwhelming at only 100 potency / tick, but given it's free healing on a decently short cooldown, there's nothing really to hate about the ability short of skill bloat making your hotbars / crossbars too large.

[winsock]

Welp, I think at this time we'll just need to agree to disagree. It's clear I won't be able to convenience you that Asylum is worth your time and you certainly won't convince me that Asylum is useless because there are better ways to optimize WHM.

Did you not read my post at all? Ive never once said asylum is useless. All I've been saying is that there are occasions where using Asylum is suboptimal.

[Ghishlain]

Did you not read my post at all? Ive never once said asylum is useless. All I've been saying is that there are occasions where using Asylum is suboptimal.

Did I say that you said it was useless? I did not. I said it wasn't worth your time as you've more or less been adamant that Asylum has always been and will always be suboptimal and thus you'll always have better plays to make in any given circumstance. To quote you:

I will be that guy for a sec and argue that sometimes is just plain better not using asylum.

Yes, you did say:

Dont get me wrong, the skill is great when dealing with some niche scenarios like Bismarck's back, but many times its just not worth activating.

But I do feel you undervalue the usefulness of an ability that is free healing every 90 seconds.

Hence my comment - let's agree to disagree. I don't think we'll be able to convince the other that our position is faulty and leave it at that.

[winsock]

-snip-

to quote you quoting me:
"there are occasions where using Asylum is suboptimal"
"sometimes is just plain better not using asylum"
"many times its just not worth activating"

I'm unsure why you are convinced I believe this skill is worthless:

It's clear I won't be able to convenience you that Asylum is worth your time

This entire thread is about someone who is wondering if they should be judging WHM based on the frequency of use of their cooldowns. My very first post in this thread points out that there are very clear reasons 'not' to use asylum. In that very post, i clarified scenarios I was talking about:

"Most content isn't particularly healing or MP intensive. If DS + regen is enough for the tank, there's little point in using Asylum. In AoE scenarios, often I'd find myself encompassing everyone in Asylum, only to have some run out of it and require individual attn anyway. Whereas medica II or cure III would have sufficiently handled the situation in 1 cast."


You even state:

In some cases, Regen + CS + PoM [not asylum] IS the right call to make, in other cases Regen + Asylum + CS is the better call

I'm unsure how this is different from my initial entry:
"sometimes is just plain better not using asylum"

[Maltothoris]

Unless its savage raid, I don't know how many times Asylum has been useful. From keeping a tank before the tankbuster while i heal a prey through in A1S, during the 5th, 7th, and 9th waves of A2S, the opening of A3S where I need to dps along with a regen, healing the tanks during the Hand of Phase, just its overall useful during the final phase of A4S and probably usefulness that will come in A4S. In savage, it's not as niche as one would think.

[Ghishlain]

-snip-

Oh, I was never convinced that you felt the skill was worthless. What I was convinced is the fact that you felt there was a multitude of scenarios that you felt Asylum was trumped by another ability and thus Asylum should be considered a backburner ability at best. What most others and myself have been trying to argue is that Asylum is much more effective then you give it credit for. To quote you:

Not saying it isn't a good skill, just that it is niche enough to be worth not casting in many scenarios, and shouldn't be viewed in the same light as DS and PoM

There are many healing scenarios where Asylum is just excess, but also can't be used as a substitute. So unlike DS or PoM there are quite a few scenarios where cast Asylum is just wasteful.

All I'm trying to show is that there are numerous healing scenarios where not casting asylum is actually a small optimization, and that not casting asylum shouldn't be judged the same way as not using DS or PoM, because Asylum competes with other skills.

There's a difference between "absolutely useless" and "low tier application" and if it seemed like I was implying you were saying it was useless, that most certainly wasn't my intent. I however do believe, given your quotes above, you are undervaluing the power of Asylum and most people on this thread who argued with you on that point do seem to agree. I just ask you re-consider your opinion about Asylum.

[Risvertasashi]

Perhaps look at it this way...

Asylum is twice as powerful as medica II. And it's free and oGCD.

How many people call medica II useless?

[Menae]

On a single target, Asylum is a potential 800 potency free heal. Even if you only get half of that value, what does it cost you? About a second of time to cast it and a 90 second CD.

Don't get me wrong, I'd certainly trade Asylum for a second Tetrabackgammon per minute in most scenarios, but you could do far worse than cast it on cooldown.

[Elamys]

Yeah, after playing some more, I don't really see how you lose anything by casting Asylum, since there's no cast time or anything.

[NamoNanamo]

Perhaps look at it this way...

Asylum is twice as powerful as medica II. And it's free and oGCD.

How many people call medica II useless?

No, it isn't twice as powerful as Medica II, stop smoking.
And you can't compare Asylum to medica with only the potency.