useless scholars

[Ashelia_Ferron]

Going off on a tangent here slightly, but I'd be more surprised to actually see a tank use their 'ultimate' CD when they get low on HP. I've seen a lot of times where the tank gets low, whether it's their fault or the healers, and yet somehow it's always the healer busting their CDs to rectify the situation. Tanks can mitigate too, so while it's not ideal, it's not too far-fetched to expect them to use their abilities once in a while. If you end up dead as a tank and still have HG/Holmgang/LD available, then you messed up your role just as much as the healer did.

As PLD, I always use HG at least 3 times a dungeon. Not because I have to, but because it's a waste if I don't. It has a 5 min CD, dungeons are 30 min long on average. Very rarely do I end up in a "Oh crap" moment where it would actually be required, so just saving it for a moment that may or may not happen just seems like a huge waste.


On topic though, not DPSing =/= useless.

[Lastelli]

If your healer is out dpsing anyone besides maybe a pld, then the healers dps is faaaaaaar from the problem and you are basically "carrying" those real dps, which btw is something you disagree with, since a healer not dpsing is being carried right?

So because other players are bad you should feel in the right if you're bad yourself? Nice way of thinking.
Anyway, purposefully deciding not to dps because "I don't feel like it" or "this isn't my role" even if you have plenty of tools to do so just denotes a bad/lazy healer. I won't force anyone to grow up and become a better player, not a healer not dpsing, nor a dps performing poorly. I won't write anything in the chat log. If I notice a player is bad I'll just try to do my best to avoid wasting 40 minutes in a dungeon. If all the other players are terrible I'll silently leave the instance. I'll just frown and acknowledge how bad that player was / those players were.
Also, a SCH dps skills are so powerful that with a minimal effort (again, dots+bane+shadowflare) you just naturally have a higher dps than a NIN or a MCH for example. You don't want to? You're free to do as you please, but you're intentionally being a bad player and wasting more time than needed in a dungeon that the game forces you to clear several times a week to obtain your precious esoterics.
But again, the main point here is the effort you put into something. A dps needs to be quite active to do good damage...a SCH that only heals can literally autofollow the tank and let the fairy heal, and with the current ilvl this is not even an hyperbole. To me, this is equivalent to a monk spamming bootshine while watching netflix. Bad, inept, lazy, disrespectful, call it what you want but the essence is the same.

[BloodPact]

Why do 90% of the people on this forum feel the need to keep creating the same thread over and over and over and over and over again?

The same reason you see them AFK with the new weapon or mount at the aetherytes in game. To try to show off. This post is nothing more than "Hey everyone, I'm above average because I DPS". The really good players just do their thing and if anything talk to their groups. People who come to the forums to post this kind of thing are trying to fish for some self-esteem boost or something; it's specially obvious because, as you said, it's a dead end topic that's been overkilled.

[Supersun]

If your healer is out dpsing anyone besides maybe a pld, then the healers dps is faaaaaaar from the problem and you are basically "carrying" those real dps, which btw is something you disagree with, since a healer not dpsing is being carried right?

Once again, healer dps is 100% optional, if you are upset that a healer isnt dpsing, report them and watch nothing happen, because its not bad, its not blasphemy and nothing you will do will make them dps anymore than they want to..


Funny story even, i was in a low level dungeon as a whm, didnt feel like dpsing, one of the dps so rudely said "can u stop standing around like an idiot and start dpsing?" so, i Xclassed ruin and used that over and over without cleric, well, i was dpsing at least, right?

I can kind of understand their frustration to a degree.

I'd be like a Sch just summining his fairy, the Sch auto-following the tank, and then going afk for the next 30 mins.

I'd be slightly peeved as a DPS when the Sch is essentially leeching, and if it were possible I'd rather just have a 3rd DPS instead and have one of the DPS put cure on their bar at that point, but I can't because the Duty Finder requires a job with the healer role.

There's certainly a certain level of frustration when people are putting in effort on a team and someone isn't. It's like those school group papers where one person does all the work and the rest just do nothing.

ESPECIALLY in lower level dungeons like Halitali where a Con/Whm with Stone II is going to be pushing similar DPS numbers as the DPS themselves.

I mean strictly speaking the tank, if able, can just hold hate by doing nothing by spamming flash and the DPS can stop using skill and just kill stuff with their auto attacks. I mean as a DPS pushing extra DPS is optional, right, so long as you clear the dungeon within 90 minutes, but no one wants to take 90 minutes to clear a dungeon.

So yes, I understand a the frustration of your party if you had a good tank that barely took very little damage and you essentially sat there doing nothing. It's very likely you turned what would have been a 20 minute run into a 30 minute run and wasted 10 minutes of the rest of the party's time.

Now I'm not saying you must squeeze every ounce of DPS at all times and have the most stressful run ever because everyone is constantly at 100 HP, but if you are intentionally putting in less effort than the rest of the party...yeah, that's pretty low.

Is it reportable, no, but there are plenty of things that shouldn't be done that aren't reportable either.

[DarkerOrange]

Anyone saying that you can't spend 30 seconds not healing is wrong. On my SCH I have done entire EX roulette runs without casting a single heal - that is 15 minutes without healing. The fairy is more than capable of picking up the slack, especially if you use Eos (but I normally use Selene).

[LeeraSorlan]

snip

im not against healers dpsing. I think they should when they are able, but i dont see it as a problem if they dont. Lots of reasons why a healer might not want to dps.Then theirs the argument of only sticking to your role. A healer only wants to heal and a tank only wants to tank etc. People shouldnt be forced or shunned b to do something outside of the role they have.


Which has always been a complaint to me in any MMO. If a way to do something is better, everyone will think negatively on someone doing it another way, even if that way is passable.


No dungeon should tank the full 90 minutes with the 2 dps actually dpsing, thats the other thing, a dps slacks off by dpsing less, which is the role they are, a healer slacks off by not dpsing, which is not the role they are.


This post was all over the place sorry

[thunderbreak]

Problem with 90% of the scholars are whm main. You can just tell the derps trying to stoneskin you 1 by 1 instead of use succor or proc Adlo then deployment tactics.

They have no idea the limit of scholar and the timing to apply/reapply dots. Or how to dance in and out of cleric stance. Especially now lustrate has been nerfed, so their emergency button is not so life saving anymore.

[Blessedbythesun]

Yes. Healers with extra time/mana/GCD not needed to heal should be helping to DPS.

That's a surprised. I thought you may have held the same "Go be a WHM" sentiment that the OP had.

Efficient use? You litterally have simply to spam physick to clear expert dungeons.

Oh really? If I take this literally, all a SCH is doing is spamming Physick and without a care to use the other damage mitigation abilities would yield NO time for DPSing because the SCH would not be creating that opportunity to find a comfort zone to do so.

Also, a SCH dps skills are so powerful that with a minimal effort (again, dots+bane+shadowflare) you just naturally have a higher dps than a NIN or a MCH for example. You don't want to? You're free to do as you please, but you're intentionally being a bad player and wasting more time than needed in a dungeon that the game forces you to clear several times a week to obtain your precious esoterics.

Shenanigans. SCH mimimal effort does not and will not yield any higher DPS over any DPS unless all they are doing is spamming AoE attacks. For every 4 ticks (12 seconds) of damage from dots, any DPS could effectively deal the same amount of in 2-3 weapon skills (4-6 seconds) without taking in account crit damage. If you want to throw in bane's dot spread, how often does a SCH actually have time reapply dots consistently? Even more so, the only way to pull up respectable DPS numbers over a short period of time (Not even a full minute) is to throw in Broil, Ruin II, and the tabboo use of energy drain, if you have the breathing room after throwing down dots.

Anyone saying that you can't spend 30 seconds not healing is wrong. On my SCH I have done entire EX roulette runs without casting a single heal - that is 15 minutes without healing. The fairy is more than capable of picking up the slack, especially if you use Eos (but I normally use Selene).

I am calling shenanigans on this too. I'm not going to say it's not impossible to go an entire 15 mins without ever healing... under the condition that your tank is not making large pulls. Example, Neverreap very first island has 5 mobs with that can all be easily tanked with as long as the healer is focused on healing until the wamoura and on other is dead before even thinking about having the breathing room to throw down dots. If you have a tank safe pulling the entire way, you have more time to DPS, but clear slower. I thought that has been proven with speed runs in 2.0. And speaking for myself only, I prefer my tanks to make large pulls because I am not only confident in my ability to heal through massive damage, but because I am far more engage doing what I enjoy about being a healer than the reason why I avoided playing a DPS as a main job in the first place.

It's very likely you turned what would have been a 20 minute run into a 30 minute run and wasted 10 minutes of the rest of the party's time.

I really want to agree with this, I do. Healer DPS on trash mobs will probably shave seconds off the end time, and minutes off the end time if there is enough DPS from the healer going in on the boss. But I have NEVER heard of healers lack of or even minimal effort towards DPSing becoming a sole reason or even part of a reason why a dungeon wasn't cleared fast enough or cleared way too slowly.

Problem with 90% of the scholars are whm main. You can just tell the derps trying to stoneskin you 1 by 1 instead of use succor or proc Adlo then deployment tactics.

They have no idea the limit of scholar and the timing to apply/reapply dots. Or how to dance in and out of cleric stance. Especially now lustrate has been nerfed, so their emergency button is not so life saving anymore.

That is.... pretty inaccurate considering both in the made up statistic and the fact that you believe Lustrate has been nerfed that it's useless.

These are the things we know to be true. Learning curve for playing SCH is higher than WHM. It is higher for people who have been use to playing other jobs for longer periods of time, or even for the ones that didn't choose SCH as their first pick to do dungeons while doing MSQ in the beginning because it's so easy to just blow through them to level that you can pretty much stick to DPSing with no thought of healing or mananging your fairy from low levels.

Another thing I have realize is that some of us are so jaded, like the OP, that we forget that people will play to what is more comfortable for them because a good majority of players are, and I mean this in the most unoffensive way, casual players, may even be their first MMO.

I find it odd that I'm taking this stance because I mained SMN in FFXI and was bottlenecked into a much weaker WHM when I actually wanted to DPS. And as an endgame SCH in FFXIV who actually, I understand the importance of DPSing and how seconds, not minutes, can make or break a clear, the demand and obligation for SCH to DPS, to a degree, does not exist. And at any point as a SCH, I feel like my DPS is a necessity in a dungeon run that the party's overall success for not just a timely clear but a successful clear in general, I may as well drop out because I've done that before. I have a very instance of that that I recorded on my PS4 where I had carry DPS failing at both DPSing and mechanics by having to work over time in both healing and DPSing myself. I don't need that type of stress playing this game while doing something that's suppose to be that simple. No one does.

[Lastelli]

Problem with 90% of the scholars are whm main. You can just tell the derps trying to stoneskin you 1 by 1 instead of use succor or proc Adlo then deployment tactics.

They have no idea the limit of scholar and the timing to apply/reapply dots. Or how to dance in and out of cleric stance. Especially now lustrate has been nerfed, so their emergency button is not so life saving anymore.

Lustrate wasn't really nerfed. You cannot use it while in cleric stance now, but being a 600 potency ability it's now effective on dps, healers and tanks. It's less effective on WARs using defiance though. All things considered, I think it was buffed.

[thunderbreak]

Ok, do you use lustrate on tank more or dps more?