useless scholars

[Nadirah]

Agreed, and let's assume they aren't comfortable. Well id rather they fail and let me die trying to learn how to DPS. Than to be too scared to try it in fear someone will criticize them for letting them die.

The best people on this planet understand you can't be afraid to make mistakes and learn from them. Someone who's already successful had their fair share of mistakes so don't let their criticisms deter you from improving.

As a tank, I'd rather not. Learning to do that stuff isn't what duty finder is for.

If I have to blow Hallowed on trash because you're too busy dpsing, yet its still dying so slowly that I ran out of CDs and had to HG we have a problem.

[Kabzy]

If I have to blow Hallowed on trash because you're too busy dpsing, yet its still dying so slowly that I ran out of CDs and had to HG we have a problem.

Going off on a tangent here slightly, but I'd be more surprised to actually see a tank use their 'ultimate' CD when they get low on HP. I've seen a lot of times where the tank gets low, whether it's their fault or the healers, and yet somehow it's always the healer busting their CDs to rectify the situation. Tanks can mitigate too, so while it's not ideal, it's not too far-fetched to expect them to use their abilities once in a while. If you end up dead as a tank and still have HG/Holmgang/LD available, then you messed up your role just as much as the healer did.

[Nadirah]

In other words you're OK with slowing other people down because when you get tired you get lazy? I mean this attitude isn't any different than DPS who get lazy about doing their rotation. And you paid your $15 and can do it but it doesn't make it right.

If no one is dead, I don't give a hoot.

Ooh wow, run finished two whole minutes faster! Whoop. Dee. Doo.

[Nadirah]

@Alex, the tank hate/damage argument is bunk because damage dealt directly correlates to tank hate.

You aren't doing more healing the more you dps yet, so your comparison is bad.

[Ashelia_Ferron]

Going off on a tangent here slightly, but I'd be more surprised to actually see a tank use their 'ultimate' CD when they get low on HP. I've seen a lot of times where the tank gets low, whether it's their fault or the healers, and yet somehow it's always the healer busting their CDs to rectify the situation. Tanks can mitigate too, so while it's not ideal, it's not too far-fetched to expect them to use their abilities once in a while. If you end up dead as a tank and still have HG/Holmgang/LD available, then you messed up your role just as much as the healer did.

As PLD, I always use HG at least 3 times a dungeon. Not because I have to, but because it's a waste if I don't. It has a 5 min CD, dungeons are 30 min long on average. Very rarely do I end up in a "Oh crap" moment where it would actually be required, so just saving it for a moment that may or may not happen just seems like a huge waste.


On topic though, not DPSing =/= useless.

[DarkerOrange]

Anyone saying that you can't spend 30 seconds not healing is wrong. On my SCH I have done entire EX roulette runs without casting a single heal - that is 15 minutes without healing. The fairy is more than capable of picking up the slack, especially if you use Eos (but I normally use Selene).

[Blessedbythesun]

Yes. Healers with extra time/mana/GCD not needed to heal should be helping to DPS.

That's a surprised. I thought you may have held the same "Go be a WHM" sentiment that the OP had.

Efficient use? You litterally have simply to spam physick to clear expert dungeons.

Oh really? If I take this literally, all a SCH is doing is spamming Physick and without a care to use the other damage mitigation abilities would yield NO time for DPSing because the SCH would not be creating that opportunity to find a comfort zone to do so.

Also, a SCH dps skills are so powerful that with a minimal effort (again, dots+bane+shadowflare) you just naturally have a higher dps than a NIN or a MCH for example. You don't want to? You're free to do as you please, but you're intentionally being a bad player and wasting more time than needed in a dungeon that the game forces you to clear several times a week to obtain your precious esoterics.

Shenanigans. SCH mimimal effort does not and will not yield any higher DPS over any DPS unless all they are doing is spamming AoE attacks. For every 4 ticks (12 seconds) of damage from dots, any DPS could effectively deal the same amount of in 2-3 weapon skills (4-6 seconds) without taking in account crit damage. If you want to throw in bane's dot spread, how often does a SCH actually have time reapply dots consistently? Even more so, the only way to pull up respectable DPS numbers over a short period of time (Not even a full minute) is to throw in Broil, Ruin II, and the tabboo use of energy drain, if you have the breathing room after throwing down dots.

Anyone saying that you can't spend 30 seconds not healing is wrong. On my SCH I have done entire EX roulette runs without casting a single heal - that is 15 minutes without healing. The fairy is more than capable of picking up the slack, especially if you use Eos (but I normally use Selene).

I am calling shenanigans on this too. I'm not going to say it's not impossible to go an entire 15 mins without ever healing... under the condition that your tank is not making large pulls. Example, Neverreap very first island has 5 mobs with that can all be easily tanked with as long as the healer is focused on healing until the wamoura and on other is dead before even thinking about having the breathing room to throw down dots. If you have a tank safe pulling the entire way, you have more time to DPS, but clear slower. I thought that has been proven with speed runs in 2.0. And speaking for myself only, I prefer my tanks to make large pulls because I am not only confident in my ability to heal through massive damage, but because I am far more engage doing what I enjoy about being a healer than the reason why I avoided playing a DPS as a main job in the first place.

It's very likely you turned what would have been a 20 minute run into a 30 minute run and wasted 10 minutes of the rest of the party's time.

I really want to agree with this, I do. Healer DPS on trash mobs will probably shave seconds off the end time, and minutes off the end time if there is enough DPS from the healer going in on the boss. But I have NEVER heard of healers lack of or even minimal effort towards DPSing becoming a sole reason or even part of a reason why a dungeon wasn't cleared fast enough or cleared way too slowly.

Problem with 90% of the scholars are whm main. You can just tell the derps trying to stoneskin you 1 by 1 instead of use succor or proc Adlo then deployment tactics.

They have no idea the limit of scholar and the timing to apply/reapply dots. Or how to dance in and out of cleric stance. Especially now lustrate has been nerfed, so their emergency button is not so life saving anymore.

That is.... pretty inaccurate considering both in the made up statistic and the fact that you believe Lustrate has been nerfed that it's useless.

These are the things we know to be true. Learning curve for playing SCH is higher than WHM. It is higher for people who have been use to playing other jobs for longer periods of time, or even for the ones that didn't choose SCH as their first pick to do dungeons while doing MSQ in the beginning because it's so easy to just blow through them to level that you can pretty much stick to DPSing with no thought of healing or mananging your fairy from low levels.

Another thing I have realize is that some of us are so jaded, like the OP, that we forget that people will play to what is more comfortable for them because a good majority of players are, and I mean this in the most unoffensive way, casual players, may even be their first MMO.

I find it odd that I'm taking this stance because I mained SMN in FFXI and was bottlenecked into a much weaker WHM when I actually wanted to DPS. And as an endgame SCH in FFXIV who actually, I understand the importance of DPSing and how seconds, not minutes, can make or break a clear, the demand and obligation for SCH to DPS, to a degree, does not exist. And at any point as a SCH, I feel like my DPS is a necessity in a dungeon run that the party's overall success for not just a timely clear but a successful clear in general, I may as well drop out because I've done that before. I have a very instance of that that I recorded on my PS4 where I had carry DPS failing at both DPSing and mechanics by having to work over time in both healing and DPSing myself. I don't need that type of stress playing this game while doing something that's suppose to be that simple. No one does.

[DarkerOrange]

I'd be more than happy to take a video of me not healing in an ex dungeon to show you, it is very very very easy to do.

[Blessedbythesun]

I'd be more than happy to take a video of me not healing in an ex dungeon to show you, it is very very very easy to do.

Are you going to do it a tank that using their self sustaining and damage mitigation abilities, and DPS that limit damage taken to unavoidable damage. Or otherwise going in blind in DF without a premade party, sure. Go right a head. I'll gladly take back what I said about it.

[RedHerb]

I'd be more than happy to take a video of me not healing in an ex dungeon to show you, it is very very very easy to do.

I'd like to see this too...