An Analysis Of The Crafting Endgame

[Alahra]

I think SE was planning for the long term with the new system

They probably were, though if the structure stays the same in the longterm, we're going to end up at roughly the same place again in 3.2, I have to imagine (unless they don't intend to reset crafter progression every tier the way they do DoW/DoM progression). For this raid cycle, at least, we'll never see the i180 DoW/DoM gear be worthwhile, as by the time the mats are readily available in such a way that they'll be affordable for the larger population, there will be plenty of other "free" gearing options that are higher item level (Esoterics, Void Ark, Alexander Normal, Exploratory Missions, etc).

If they don't reset crafting progression in 3.2, though, it'll probably mean that our scrips will be able to be put toward materials from the get-go (or at least, much sooner than they generally will be now), which will both make the new items (probably around i200 or i210) available when they can actually be useful and bring their costs down.

Unfortunately, we've still got about 4 months before 3.2, most likely, so it's going to be awhile before we have a real sense of how this is all going to shake out.

As an aside, when it comes to Quality of Life stuff, I *really* hate that the vendors for Rowena's Tokens/Collectible turn ins and the vendor for the gear and mats are on opposite sides of the main plateau in Idyllshire. Would it have killed them to put them all three behind the same counter? x.x

[Silverbane]

... I would say keeping track of Node spawns and item locations is part of being a good Gatherer, just like remembering when and what mechanics happen in a raid or what rotation to use for a certain level recipe. Also I'd rather not have a full list of Node spawns in my timer list D:

Garland Bell (http://www.garlandtools.org/bell/) has all of such information that any gatherer needs, and is filterable so you can see only what you want to see: MIN/BOT/both, any or all of Legendary/Unspoiled/Ephemeral, and more.

The only caveat is that it relies on your system's time, so make sure your system time is accurate or the Eorzea time reported by Garland Bell will be off. Garland Bell and Garland Tools Database easily justify having a monopoly on one of my monitors.

You do have to get used to how the data is presented, but it's pretty cool once you are used to it.

[Katlyna]

A massive amount of time yes, but also a MASSIVE profit, or the majority of the cost of a 2-Star should you choose to use the items. Here I have no sympathy for Gatherers, especially after the change to Favors.

I concur I don't feel terrible for gatherers right now but, the time investment is high enough that casual gathers aren't' participating which makes it more painful for us. Also I don't particular like gathering for 6-7 hours a week... it blows big green nana bear tails.

These seem to be more QoL improvements than anything.

I'm a huge QoL freak and HATE idiotic and artificial UI decisions which make things require documentation or supplemental information. Coming up with an efficient gathering path and efficient rotations should make a good gatherer. Having a detailed spreadsheet or tool setup with all your timers, node slot, collectability information, etc... should NOT define what a good gather is. But currently both sets of skills are required. And this again pushes away more gathers. Gathering should be organic and interesting ingame... not out of game in spreadsheets lol.

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All in all though this whole thing is a bloody mess which has just made me personally need to gather 90% of time in order to reach the same kind of crafting pinnacle I used to reside in. Which makes me fairly unhappy. I now have less time to level combat classes and play the other side of the game than ever, and this makes me pretty grumpy.

[Katlyna]

Garland Bell (http://www.garlandtools.org/bell/) has all of such information that any gatherer needs, and is filterable so you can see only what you want to see: MIN/BOT/both

I need to show a video of what I track and how I set it up in garlandtools. You can make your own tab with all your timers (your choice) with minimaps and select timers to ding 1 minute before ready. Its really nice. Likewise you can organize them such that visibly they're in order of how you tend to gather them. Its helped me setup a really efficient combined red/blue gathering cycle.

[Valesti_Peleiades]

the NEXT tier off crafting items should not required any favors at all, this favor system needs to stay ONLY for making the 2 star crafting sets/future gathering sets.

I couldn't agree more; favors need to go. Even if they did nothing else to improve the system, getting rid of favors (and making the 2-star mats ONLY require crafting red scrips) would alleviate one very large problem with the current endgame, at least in my eyes. Namely, the crafting endgame involves very little actual crafting. The vast majority (95%) of your time is gathering: gather the mats for your red gathering turn ins, gather your mats for your red crafting turn ins, and the cherry on top? 4 MORE HOURS of gathering with favors. Then when you *finally* get all your mats and sit down to craft the 2, maybe 3 gear pieces for the week...it takes you 30 min. TOPS. Just getting rid of those stupid favors would eliminate a lot of the grind that's getting so many crafters down.

[Alex_Lenderson]

And that's really the point. They need to find a way to let crafting be in parity with drops.Otherwise it'll be the same problem in 3.1 as we've consistently had throughout the game: people don't buy high end crafted gear because high end drops/currency gear are easier to obtain for better stats, and the difficulty of making high end crafted gear makes it too expensive.

I agree with you but this will never change.

[Katlyna]

The irony is with the difficulty of making the current battle gear, they could have aligned it with really high end drops even more so than in 3.x Like alternate Eso gear or just below (but equal with materia). But I concur development was not happy with good quality crafting battle gear... which is sad given it really didn't accelerate core raiders... They chewed through the content anyway with the easily available law/eso gear.

[raela]

1a. I'll get flak for this I'm sure, but a 1-size-fits-all Crafting set ruins the Crafting Endgame.

I'm softcore completionist - I want all my classes raised up and geared to get out and do things. I also happen to hoard mats (just in case!!) and glamours. As much as I love the unique designs they have put to the new gear, it'll be way too much strain on my armory chest, especially with upgraded law/Alex gear that my DoW grew out of (saving for desyn/seals) and leveling sets for non-capped jobs. I wish they came up with something to soften the left side / rung armory chest spaces..

[Sollux]

I couldn't agree more; favors need to go. Even if they did nothing else to improve the system, getting rid of favors (and making the 2-star mats ONLY require crafting red scrips) would alleviate one very large problem with the current endgame, at least in my eyes.

And creates another large problem, only this time it would be for Gatherers. Without Favor items to sell to Crafters the Gatherers wouldn't even HAVE an Endgame. When compared to the income Favors bring Folklore mats are laughably cheap. Even if demand shot up due to more Crafters attempting 2-Stars it wouldn't even scratch what a Gatherer can make with a week's worth of Favors without spending the same amount of time (Likely more) than they would have spent doing Favors. I have no sympathy when Gatherers complain about Favors, especially after the change, but that doesn't mean I want to destroy their Endgame.

[Sollux]

I'm softcore completionist - I want all my classes raised up and geared to get out and do things. I also happen to hoard mats (just in case!!) and glamours. As much as I love the unique designs they have put to the new gear, it'll be way too much strain on my armory chest, especially with upgraded law/Alex gear that my DoW grew out of (saving for desyn/seals) and leveling sets for non-capped jobs. I wish they came up with something to soften the left side / rung armory chest spaces..

I think we're all pleading for some Armory Chest relief, and I believe they mentioned a potential fix during a Live Letter in the form of the ability to Glamour from a Retainer since a lot of people carry their Glamours with them, though I'm not exactly sure how they plan to do that.