Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[VanilleFang]

As a healer i can say i sometimes do that so the tank has a minor healing at the start :P Dont know if i am doing bad or right, but i have never been told anything about it.

Why though? What is the minor heal going to do for you or the tank at the start of a pull?

[Zhamkyong]

Why though? What is the minor heal going to do for you or the tank at the start of a pull?

Depends on the tank.

I have encountered well geared tanks that used theyr mitigation skills and left me a window to help with the dps. The only thing i had to do as AST was to buff(or gain them) and apply regen so he would be healed meantime. On the other hand we have those tanks that pull everything on the dungueon regardless of theyr equipment and i have to spam every heal aviable so they wont die, because they wont use any mitigation skill either. On the first example i dont do it, but on the second i have to or they die by the time i finish a cast.

Please don't apply regen before a pull. In that initial phase of a pull, the tank is trying to establish aggro. Attacks by the dps or healing ticks from your regen build enmity on the mobs that your tank has to compete against to maintain aggro control, meaning your tank has to work harder to keep the mobs from eating you. It's safer to wait for the tank to stop pulling and do at least one enmity AoE on the mobs before tossing that heal.

Noted. It's good to see some good advice for a time... As i stated above, it depends on the tank i am healing.

[Maerwen]

Soo I got Library from my leveling roulette as a sch last night. My boyfriend went as blm. Anyways until we hit the first boss, this is what I've been doing in no particular order: bio and miasma and bane those, I deploy either adlo or eye for an eye, ruin 2, broil, and heal. If Deployment Tactic is on cd, I'll use Succor.

When we hit the first boss, tank calls me out because of the lack of shields and then he left before I can reply. Left my boyfriend and the bard confused but both agreed that the "tank is an idiot". We eventually finish the run. Boyfriend had to reque as a tank and we didn't get another dps until we finish the first boss.

[Lokier]

Back at it in party finder trying to kill Nidhogg, what's that been, two months without ever actually killing him?

Most of my P/F time has been spent waiting to reassemble the group because people would rage quit after one or two deaths.... As if the party is queued as a 'farm' group and not a kill group, as in the singular. As in made for anyone who has yet to actually kill him but at least, vaguely, know the tactics. >_>

And what's this I hear you cry, 'why don't you ask a farm party to help you'? Well because anyone I do whisper just flat out ignores me; and anyone who does let me join? We don't even manage to kill him, even once...

... until the boss actually dies.

[Jpec07]

Back at it in party finder trying to kill Nidhogg, what's that been, two months without ever actually killing him?

Most of my P/F time has been spent waiting to reassemble the group because people would rage quit after one or two deaths.... As if the party is queued as a 'farm' group and not a kill group, as in the singular. As in made for anyone who has yet to actually kill him but at least, vaguely, know the tactics. >_>

And what's this I hear you cry, 'why don't you ask a farm party to help you'? Well because anyone I do whisper just flat out ignores me; and anyone who does let me join? We don't even manage to kill him, even once...

... until the boss actually dies.

This reminds me of my attempts to get Sephirot NM down a couple weeks after it had launched. Waited in queue for half an hour (as a tank), and everyone kept leaving after one or two deaths. Eventually the party wound up disbanding with 15 minutes left on the duty timer. No one bothered to explain mechanics, people couldn't avoid the obvious ones; it was just a train wreck of a DF run.

Depends on the tank.

I have encountered well geared tanks that used theyr mitigation skills and left me a window to help with the dps. The only thing i had to do as AST was to buff(or gain them) and apply regen so he would be healed meantime. On the other hand we have those tanks that pull everything on the dungueon regardless of theyr equipment and i have to spam every heal aviable so they wont die, because they wont use any mitigation skill either. On the first example i dont do it, but on the second i have to or they die by the time i finish a cast.

Noted. It's good to see some good advice for a time... As i stated above, it depends on the tank i am healing.

Speaking as a tank: please don't ever apply regen pre-pull or mid-pull. Shields are fine, but regen is going to give you buckets of healing aggro before we can get our enmity combo off. This makes the beginning of most pulls chaotic, and if there are multiple adds, it means that all of the ones we aren't targeting are going to want to come say hello to your face in the floor.

Also, when they're mass pulling, ask them to use their cooldowns while they're kiting mobs together. Big heals are going to strip hate from them, because they probably haven't had much opportunity to build enmity yet. If they die? You can blame them for going too fast.

[bounddreamer]

Why though? What is the minor heal going to do for you or the tank at the start of a pull?

Hi, tank main here (and I also heal). This can affect your tank in one of two ways. If you precast regen before the pull, or it's still ticking, and you have a group of widely scattered mobs, when the tank does their ranged pull on one mob, the other two make a beeline for the healer.

This is not a big deal for a small pull or an experienced tank. They simply do their group aggro move and everyone starts working on those mobs. At a lower level, or with an inexperienced tank who may not yet have a tank stance, the healer may find one or two mobs chewing on their face because of regen aggro.

The practice sets a bad precedent because small pulls are only standard in lower level content. If you apply a pre-pull regen and the tank pulls one group then keeps going for the next one, your regen or any regen/cure you apply before they stop moving will interrupt the pull. If they're a good tank, they will stop, get aggro back, and continue the pull. But the eager dps may think that's the end and start beating on the mobs and compete for aggro, too.

If they are a bad tank they will keep going regardless, and you're going to have one or two mobs chewing your face while the tank continues on their merry way. Then you'll have to blow cooldowns you may need when a tank has a big group gathered, just to keep yourself up until (and IF) he takes aggro back on your regen magnet mobs.

Contrast with no pre-pull regen: tank does a ranged aggro move, all mobs aggro on him because no one else is doing anything, everyone follows the tank as they repeat with the next group, and the next, then they come to a stop and do a few group aggro moves, pop cooldowns, dps begin aoe rotactions, healer applies regen/shielding/whatever, everything is smooth and life is good.

Also: this is going to affect different tanks differently. PLD's group aggro move is circle of scorn, which has a cooldown, and flash, which is a pain to do on the fly. WAR has overpower and steel cyclone. Overpower is a frontal cone and has to be aimed at the mobs - also a pain to do on the fly. DRK, by contrast, can just merrily Unleash their way through groups of mobs until they run out of MP so this won't be as big a deal for them.

[Zhamkyong]

Speaking as a tank: please don't ever apply regen pre-pull or mid-pull. Shields are fine, but regen is going to give you buckets of healing aggro before we can get our enmity combo off. This makes the beginning of most pulls chaotic, and if there are multiple adds, it means that all of the ones we aren't targeting are going to want to come say hello to your face in the floor.

Also, when they're mass pulling, ask them to use their cooldowns while they're kiting mobs together. Big heals are going to strip hate from them, because they probably haven't had much opportunity to build enmity yet. If they die? You can blame them for going too fast.

I get your point.

The problem with the mass pulling is that they ran away and i have to decide very fast what to do in this case. I dont have the time to write and tell them to slow a bit when that happens because... Well, if i get distracted while they are doing that it wont end well, so to say. I got runs in some dungueons where we got to the last boss and i had to ask for a stop for me to regain MP.

Even after using the card AND the ability to regain it.

That being said, not always happens but... It has given me the bad habit to be cautious in that way.

[AngeloFlick]

If the tank can't survive a full pull without a regen, they shouldn't full pull. Shields/stoneskin, cooldowns and the tank's gear level are supposed to take care of things until the tank establishes group aggro.

[Dzian]

Ideally tanks shouldnt stop until they finished the pull. There is nothing worse than a stop and go tank.

Tank stops pulls finished bards drop flaming arrow ninjas doton. My scholar a shadow flare and off the tank goes to continue the pull.

Or tank stops dps pops raging strikes and buffs i tell fairy to covenant and off the tank runs to pull more mobs. Misses covenant and Next time he stops the dps buffs all droppedal off..

As a tank if the dps /healers pulls aggro during a pull they can keep it till I've finished at which point I'll pull it back with my aoes. I won't stop to get the mob back and then start pulling again for the reasons just stated.

Healers have the advantage here as they can avoid the mobs that aggroed to them just hitting sprint to catch up to the tank.

[VanilleFang]

snip...

Wow, uh, big reply... I'm just going to start by saying thanks for trying to be helpful. But I've been playing WHM for a couple years now so I already know the ins and outs of dungeon pulls. I wasn't asking about the consequences of using a regen pre-pull, I was asking what possible benefits there are to it.

...

As an AST you have Essential Dignity in all dungeons so there is really no excuse for them dying because they won't survive a cast. And if they die within the the span of the 2.5 seconds that it takes you to cast a spell, how is a regen that heals less every 3 seconds possibly going to keep them alive?