Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Mysterysword]

So I've spent these past couple of weeks learning how to tank A8 as PLD. When I first started, I was using the ilvl 200 Eso weapon, no upgrades because I'm lazy. But I've managed to hold aggro from DPS with ilvl 240 weapons in Sohr Khai and Hullbreaker Isle HM before. Now I have the upgraded lore weapon for PLD, so it's easier.

Of course I'm not the best tank, PLD is hardly my main. But having played all 3 healer jobs to 60, I do believe I have a fairly decent grasp of how aggro works, as well as how regen buffs generate aggro. So that being said, if a WHM decides to pop Medica II/Asylum, and especially if an AST decides to throw up Collective Unconscious, while Brute Justice is spawning, they will get aggro, and there will be nothing I can do about it.

I can Provoke and Shield Lob all I want, I will not get aggro. Especially if the healer in question then decides to run around like a headless chicken, therefore leading the boss on a little jog, so I can't use my close-range aggro skills. Especially especially if I happen to be paralysed, and half my actions are being interrupted.

Have I, as a tank, screwed up horribly and led to deaths and wipes before? Yes, of course I have. Incorrectly identifying Blaster's AoE is fairly hazardous, and I've killed people with that mistake. But I will make active steps to rectify that mistake and improve.

Even so, there are some things I simply cannot do, and keeping aggro off a healer who keeps spamming regens when a new boss is just spawning, giving me no time to even attempt to build aggro, is one of them. Being told "never had that problem while i was tanking" doesn't help. Nor does calling my playing "shitty tanking", nor does being told never to queue as PLD ever again, by condescending little brats.

I know it's popular to blame the tank these days and treat healers as precious little angels who can do no wrong even when they actively make things more difficult for an already-struggling tank, for the sake of their convenience, but once again, as someone who has played all 3 healer jobs to 60, healers need to get their heads out of their asses.

[SpiritMuse]

A8 tank woes

This is the single most annoying part of A8 as tank, that moment when Brute Justice arrives as a fresh pull and the healers insist on spamming their biggest aoe regens just as you're pulling it. And it's so unnecessary too - there's no party wide damage coming in for a while so you have more than enough time to heal up everyone after the tank has established aggro.

[aesteval]

Even so, there are some things I simply cannot do, and keeping aggro off a healer who keeps spamming regens when a new boss is just spawning, giving me no time to even attempt to build aggro, is one of them. Being told "never had that problem while i was tanking" doesn't help. Nor does calling my playing "shitty tanking", nor does being told never to queue as PLD ever again, by condescending little brats.

The number of times I've heard stories about healers popping mass regens when Brute Justice spawns... It is a terrible idea. Provoke doesn't do much when trying to gain aggro over a *oT. Provoke will give aggro until the next server tick and then you've lost aggro again and Provoke is no longer available.

[ToasterMan]

Story

Many many MANY healers in this game are bad. I see them all the time. I had the pleasure of healing A12 with a AST that had no clue what they were doing. This includes going into cleric at very bad times and trying to dps right when a Mega holy was about to come out in the last phase. Many deaths happened and we cleared it with the skin of our teeth.

[Paladinleeds]

snip

Regarding A8, as an AST, I try to have Expanded Balance ready for that, so as Brute Justice comes down and knocks us back, everyone's in the bubble for reduced damage taken, then once everyone is pushed back, fire out the Expanded Balance, and away we go. But yeah, I use CU for the damage reduction not the HoT, the HoT is just a side-effect :P

[SessionZero]

-snip-

Hahahahahaha. Okay, no. As the DRK OT in the very run you're referring to (though "Off tank" is misleading, it would be more accurate to say "the only tank") I would argue that you actually have no grasp of how aggro works. Your Paladin play was amateur to the point that I legitimately wondered if you'd ever actually paid attention to what you're doing as that class, ever before.

Had you said anything to the effect of, "Hey guys I'm new to paladin tanking in this raid so if you could please be patient/gentle/give me pointers it would be much appreciated" rather than just popping ShO and lobbing away, we could have prepared accordingly and the run would have been much smoother. As it stands you needlessly complicated the run by doing literally every single thing wrong and on top of it you had a snarky, devil-may-care attitude when it was pointed out. So no, I'm not sympathetic. And no, I don't blame our healers. Learn what you're doing before you queue for high end content as a specific job.

[Mysterysword]

Ooooooo

I'm sure it will delight you to know that I did, in fact, queue for A8 again as a PLD after that run. Multiple times, in fact. Surprise, surprise, things go better when the healers don't pop mass regens just as Brute Justice is spawning. Especially mass regens that are completely unnecessary in that situation.

I'm curious as to how every single thing I did was wrong in there. Was I supposed to stack for Double Rocket Punch when you made it in clear in the first phase that you couldn't even be bothered to swap for Perpetual Ray? Or would you have preferred I just stood back and spammed Clemency on the DPS?

[SessionZero]

lol

Mass regen or no, you certainly won't get aggro back by standing still and using Shield Lob. What I would have preferred is a little bit of warning that you had no idea what you were doing so that either A. I could instruct you on how to do things as a PLD, or B. I could MT so that we didn't have aggro flying all over the place. Saying, "Wah wah the healers popped an unnecessary AoE heal" is no excuse for having no idea how your own job works.

Protip: even HoT aggro can be completely negated by a simple Provoke > RoH > CoS > normal aggro combo. Letting the AST hold hate up till the first Rocket Punch is absolutely absurd.

[Ghishlain]

Hahahahahaha. Okay, no. As the DRK OT in the very run you're referring to (though "Off tank" is misleading, it would be more accurate to say "the only tank") I would argue that you actually have no grasp of how aggro works. Your Paladin play was amateur to the point that I legitimately wondered if you'd ever actually paid attention to what you're doing as that class, ever before.

Had you said anything to the effect of, "Hey guys I'm new to paladin tanking in this raid so if you could please be patient/gentle/give me pointers it would be much appreciated" rather than just popping ShO and lobbing away, we could have prepared accordingly and the run would have been much smoother. As it stands you needlessly complicated the run by doing literally every single thing wrong and on top of it you had a snarky, devil-may-care attitude when it was pointed out. So no, I'm not sympathetic. And no, I don't blame our healers. Learn what you're doing before you queue for high end content as a specific job.

Mass regen or no, you certainly won't get aggro back by standing still and using Shield Lob. What I would have preferred is a little bit of warning that you had no idea what you were doing so that either A. I could instruct you on how to do things as a PLD, or B. I could MT so that we didn't have aggro flying all over the place. Saying, "Wah wah the healers popped an unnecessary AoE heal" is no excuse for having no idea how your own job works.

Protip: even HoT aggro can be completely negated by a simple Provoke > RoH > CoS > normal aggro combo. Letting the AST hold hate up till the first Rocket Punch is absolutely absurd.

Erm...

Protip: If you're going to post a condescendingly aggressive response, at least get your own protip right while you're at it.

Rage of Halone UNCOMBOED does 300 Potency of Enmity
Shield Lob is 360 Potency of Enmity
Flash is 600 potency of enmity


So yes, if they were spamming Shield Lob like you said they were, it was the right call the make, especially if they can't get into melee range because Healer was running around like a chicken with their head cut off. (Don't know if this is the case or not) [Edit] BAD GHISH, BAD INFO. Though using Provoke > Flash > CoS should net more aggro then using an uncombo'd RoH as some food for thought / corrections.

Enmity References

And I've seen stupid White Mages rip hate off competent tanks in A8N by playing their heals poorly. (IE We're gonna pop Medica II after the hit goes off THEN FOR SOME REASON POP ASSIZE immediately after the Tank 'vokes to get past the initial heal aggro.)

Without being in that exact same fight and seeing what the AST was doing, I can't judge if Siesta Fiesta was being a bad tank or not but I don't doubt for a second a stupid healer can take hate off a main tank by playing excessively poorly once Brute Justice says hi.

[Lyshell]

To the Sophia EX group I left last night from raid finder:

Sorry, I know it seemed like I raged quit after our wipe last night, but it wasn't that at all. It was passed midnight and I was tired and had work in the morning I just didn't want to keep trying and wanted sleep. lol Sorry! I know that was a bit rude of me, but I was sleepy and I shouldn't have queued it but I was talking on the phone and didn't realize I was queued. Sorry!