Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Cincierta]

Dear DRK from Leviathan that was in Alliance C for World of Darkness last night:

It was nice that you wanted to try to put on your big girl pants and want to tank. It was nice that you took over tanking when I died due to lack of healing from my group.

However what was not nice was that you did not put on your tank stance at the start of the raid until the first trash set, nor your constant uses of Provoke to pull aggro away from me JUST so you could cleave the entire f*cking raid with the big bosses, you twat. If you're going to f*cking tank, face the boss away from the rest of the f*cking raid, or announce it beforehand so we don't have any more f*cking aggro wars, you little shite.

Sincerely,
The 23 other people you pissed off.

[Avatre]

Dear DRK from Leviathan that was in Alliance C for World of Darkness last night:

It was nice that you wanted to try to put on your big girl pants and want to tank. It was nice that you took over tanking when I died due to lack of healing from my group.

However what was not nice was that you did not put on your tank stance at the start of the raid until the first trash set, nor your constant uses of Provoke to pull aggro away from me JUST so you could cleave the entire f*cking raid with the big bosses, you twat. If you're going to f*cking tank, face the boss away from the rest of the f*cking raid, or announce it beforehand so we don't have any more f*cking aggro wars, you little shite.

Sincerely,
The 23 other people you pissed off.

I'm pretty sure that a lot of the people who do use provoke EVERY time it comes off CD followed some guide that said as a tank you need to use it. Personally, I never use it unless I absolutely have to, or if I want to pull a spread out group of adds to one spot for Overpower, or another cone attack/make it easier to hit all with my AoE. I also think that they really should make Hall of the Novice mandatory, especially for tanks, as it tells you to face the mobs away from the party.

[Cincierta]

I'm pretty sure that a lot of the people who do use provoke EVERY time it comes off CD followed some guide that said as a tank you need to use it. Personally, I never use it unless I absolutely have to, or if I want to pull a spread out group of adds to one spot for Overpower, or another cone attack/make it easier to hit all with my AoE. I also think that they really should make Hall of the Novice mandatory, especially for tanks, as it tells you to face the mobs away from the party.

What made it worse was that the tank I was writing about was doing the cleaves INTENTIONALLY. I had to step in and tank so the rest of the raid wouldn't be cleaved to death.

And again I got another set of tanks that did the exact opposite in another roulette today in WoD. Neither of them wanted to tank so I had to be the big gal in A to tank EVERYTHING. Yes, legit everything. The adds damage does add up and HG only lasts so long. Neither of the tanks were doing much at all save for their 1-2-3 combos and dying.

We wiped to Angra because people don't understand lvl 150 death tethers, gaze attacks, nor did the tanks realize Angra has a beam cleave. I saw half of B get flattened with it. Also people stood behind me for the beam cleave and wondered why the hell they died.

We wiped to Cereberus because "lol what's the belly?" I don't ever remember seeing THAT many haste stacks on him.

However I will apologize to the whm that crashed at the start of the first trash set. I genuinely thought you ragequit because you got WoD, and when you came back into the game we had already wiped to the first boss. This might've been a good thing for you because of the absolute sh*tshow we went through without you, potentially saving you extreme stress.

[Jirah]

MCH using the graze attacks on mobs, i politely say those done work here or ill advised unless ur solo and even then some are immune, and they get all angry and dying on purpose and refusing to aoe. Why do people act so hostile with stuff like this

[SturmChurro]

Oh, efforts comes in many different ways. The ones you mentioned are also included, but not final. Imho there are also stuffs like whether they're actively engaged in combat, respecting mechs, responses to the unexpected, etc.
If I try to put myself in one of the party members' shoes, I'd most likely fit in to the healer you mentioned. I don't know that healer, but if it were myself, yes I will be bewildered at first, but also interested as why would you queue in without your soul stone; hence I will just roll ahead and see how you'll do your thing (and everybody else's too. I like observing and it's the easiest when I'm on healer role).

Heck, the game itself did not make any pieces of equipment past 50+ (or 30+) forbidden to those basic jobs, nor even restrict their participations in higher lv duties (remember that 8 basic job party in Copied Factory?). Sure it is very frowned upon by the community in general, BUT if I'm forced to make choice whether to keep the quiet stellar basic job player or the noisy lousy advanced job player, I'd definitely pick the former. These, I cannot figure out right away in first glance without actually observing.

If that healer nor tank didn't even said anything nor decide to kick you were the run to last for full duration (I'm not sure whether you actually bail out after first boss right away or just stay to the end), I'm pretty sure they ALSO knew what was 'wrong' besides the THM not equipping their BLM soulstone... Players are clever bunch

I am usually healer or tank in duty finder, and probably would be same or similar. I'd notice the no job stone, but I wouldn't say anything, or really get angry. Considering this was (?) level 50 roulette, I really wouldn't care. If there was a kick, I'd probably say no as well, I don't usually agree to kicks unless the player actually has been offline for awhile, and we need the replacement.

[LaughingBanana]

People coming in without job/soul stone in levels where they should have it always get a raised eyebrow from me, but it's not like I immediately abandon the party or lecture the person doing it or have them kicked from the party. I could count on that actually happening with my fingers among the thousands of DFs I've done so it's really not a big deal.

Same with people with less-than-ideal DPSes or people screwing up. I mean, it's DF, who knows what kind of thing the players behind the avatars are having, maybe they're just having a bad day, maybe they just want to relax a bit, etc etc, not worth the hassle getting disturbed by it, just roll with the flow. At worst it would only take you like what, 30 minutes at the worst? before you're moving on to something else (though I did experience 1 hour DFs multiple times, which were always amusing to participate in, hahaha)

I just don't understand about folks who get angry about people messing up in stuff like DF. It happens, just chill.

[Luin]

I am usually healer or tank in duty finder, and probably would be same or similar. I'd notice the no job stone, but I wouldn't say anything, or really get angry. Considering this was (?) level 50 roulette, I really wouldn't care. If there was a kick, I'd probably say no as well, I don't usually agree to kicks unless the player actually has been offline for awhile, and we need the replacement.

You should absolutely kick people for not having a jobstone. Three possibilities.

Either they're trolling - So they should be kicked.

They have no job - Direct them to the quest to unlock their job, then kick them.

They legitimately forgot their jobstone - So they're having a boring experience with an incomplete kit and not contributing. Kicking them means they have no penalty, and lets you backfill somebody that will contribute, and provide the backfill with a faster queue.

Why should 3+ other people be forced to carry due to somebody's negligence, ignorance, or laziness?

[SturmChurro]

You should absolutely kick people for not having a jobstone. Three possibilities.

Either they're trolling - So they should be kicked.

They have no job - Direct them to the quest to unlock their job, then kick them.

They legitimately forgot their jobstone - So they're having a boring experience with an incomplete kit and not contributing. Kicking them means they have no penalty, and lets you backfill somebody that will contribute, and provide the backfill with a faster queue.

Why should 3+ other people be forced to carry due to somebody's negligence, ignorance, or laziness?

With the earlier example, the person with the jobstone was actually the one under performing. There is no guarantee that your replacement will be any better, and for that matter, I really don't care. I used to, but I have softened my stance in the last year. Granted, even back then my view on kicking was the exact same - I only kicked if someone was offline for an extended period. I generally do not see the need to kick another player.

I have been in several instances where the runs are taking 30+ minutes long, every time I can remember the players had their job stone equipped. A job stone doesn't necessarily mean a player will actually play well. While, yes, they would play more efficiently with a jobstone equipped, as I have said before, I don't really care. I'll roll my eyes at worst and continue on, just another day in the DF.

As to your three possibilities:

Trolling, I am not one to get really trolled. As I said - I do not care. Even my example the other day about RDM blinding, I wasn't dying, but other players were, another time I am arguing for others. Them thinking it's hilarious wouldn't effect me. Also, it's hard to prove a person is actually trolling.

Sure, if they ask, suggest they go unlock their job - AFTER the run, no need to kick.

A boring experience is having them requeue. Problems only arise with them having no job stone, on a necessary role - and by the way a person can have a jobstone, and not have any of the necessary skills, because they didn't continue to do their class quests. For example, I haven't done any class quests on my SCH, SMN, MNK, BLM past level 50.

Being a necessary role, on not throwaway content is the only time I will start caring, and/or when I start getting killed because of another player's negligence. Yes, things annoy me, like regen whms, but if anyone has ever noticed a constant in any of my DF stories - I NEVER kicked anyone.

To add, I suppose someone could say "Not kicking them only encourages them to continue this behavior or not improve." In my opinion, not really, a player is going to do what they are gonna do. Nothing you do - not even kicking - is going to really change that. In fact, kicking a player might encourage the opposite.

[MagicAura]

After reading many of the opinions on job stones, I've decided that my stance is way too intolerant and in direct contradiction with my other views on DF (i.e. live-and-let-live and get through no matter what). To be honest I've only had one case of someone joining without a job stone and it was in an alliance raid (I suspect they were gaming the system to get an easy raid). I didn't initiate a vote-kick and didn't leave. We finished without issues. So I've decided that I'll be more tolerant towards people who don't have job stones, tell them that they need to equip one, try to get the dungeon done, and simply leave if things don't work because they are in a critical job like healer and it looks they can't cope. It was good to read people's view on the subject, thank you all for offering them, much appreciated.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Well I certainly didn’t expect the discussion regarding job stones would last that much o_O” it’s always nice to see an exchange of opinions though, so there’s that, too.

Staying on the thread topic...
Roulettes once again has reminded me why Trial Roulette remains one of my least liked roulette of the bunch.

Trial Roulette: Titan (Hard), rolled as a WHM (to show off my new glam lmao... well not really or is it?)
Matched with SIX sprouts, with the only non first timer were the PLD main tank (yes thank god you main tanked this). All of the six sprouts says their hello rather lively makes me think they’re actually a group of 6 playing together... which was heartwarming to watch.

Titan jumps down, crumbling the edge of arena for first time.... who’s that name that greyed out soon after? Oh no, my co-heal SCH. I told myself it’ll be a tough ride. RIP SCH.

As one would expected it WAS a hectic ride. People were taking damages left and right. [Weight of Land] was almost certain to hit those newbies with that swift 2s cast time. One of them sorta ‘cried’, albeit comically in chat, consoled by the already-somewere-dead SCH (lol...). One by one goes down either due to [Landslide], Rock Bombs, or stacking the [Weight of Land] and unable to move out in time. How I wish I’m running AST at this time.

But we pulled through in the end At last few seconds I had to think fast between the PLD or the SAM. SAM chooses to activate LB in middle of supposed to be-AoE.
Yeah, no. I rescued that SAM out of animation & bene’ed the almost ded PLD. We chip off that last 2% of Titan’s health and came out victorious! (The SAM also died at very last second, I don’t know why, but hey, we made it!)

The party chat was in exhilarating excitement at that point. It was intense but I did had fun with them (despite the chaos lol).